organic chick feed & chicken feed 
Author Message
 organic chick feed & chicken feed
we are getting some day old chicks in the next day or 2 and i would like to
stay organic with them this time...what kinds of feed are there commercially
available that are organic AND what are my options in preparing my own?

as for chickens, what kind of balance should i have with my free range
chickens, i like to supplement there ranging with "scratch grains" are these
all the necessary grains they need? if so i guess i can just make up my own
mix...

thnx for any help and guidance on these items



Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:43:35 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed


Quote:
> we are getting some day old chicks in the next day or 2 and i would like
to
> stay organic with them this time...what kinds of feed are there
commercially
> available that are organic AND what are my options in preparing my own?

> as for chickens, what kind of balance should i have with my free range
> chickens, i like to supplement there ranging with "scratch grains" are
these
> all the necessary grains they need? if so i guess i can just make up my
own
> mix...

> thnx for any help and guidance on these items

where do you live? and what breed of birds are you getting?
there are people from all over the world here but without knowing where you
are the advice varies a great deal

in general I haven't heard of an organic chick crumb I don't think and it is
much better to use one with an anticoccidiostat to protect them from nasties
that can kill them very quickly however careful you are
Preparing your own - you can but you will not feed tehm as well as you would
with a proprietory feed as the ingredients are different - its also much
more expensive
Chickens are pretty carnivorous - they need a good quality protein but its
not longer allowed to add meat protein to their feeding

When they are older Scratch grains are not at all sufficient - google this
group for lots of posts on why
Depending on the breed they should have a layers ration - 2-3 oz per bird
per day - especially any commerical breeds
In most countries and most places you can get organic feeds as long as you
can pay for them

hope this helps

--
regards
Jill Bowis
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales



Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:13:23 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed

Quote:



> > we are getting some day old chicks in the next day or 2 and i would like
> to
> > stay organic with them this time...what kinds of feed are there
> commercially
> > available that are organic AND what are my options in preparing my own?

> > as for chickens, what kind of balance should i have with my free range
> > chickens, i like to supplement there ranging with "scratch grains" are
> these
> > all the necessary grains they need? if so i guess i can just make up my
> own
> > mix...

> > thnx for any help and guidance on these items

> where do you live?

Central FL, USA

Quote:
> and what breed of birds are you getting?

Cornish Rocks and some laying hens (not sure on the breed off hand)

Quote:
> there are people from all over the world here but without knowing where
you
> are the advice varies a great deal

> in general I haven't heard of an organic chick crumb I don't think and it
is
> much better to use one with an anticoccidiostat to protect them from
nasties
> that can kill them very quickly however careful you are
> Preparing your own - you can but you will not feed tehm as well as you
would
> with a proprietory feed as the ingredients are different - its also much
> more expensive

with the proprietary feeds, do they have hormones in them? thats what i'm
wanting to stay away from

Quote:
> Chickens are pretty carnivorous - they need a good quality protein but its
> not longer allowed to add meat protein to their feeding

> When they are older Scratch grains are not at all sufficient - google this
> group for lots of posts on why

will do :)

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> Depending on the breed they should have a layers ration - 2-3 oz per bird
> per day - especially any commerical breeds
> In most countries and most places you can get organic feeds as long as you
> can pay for them

> hope this helps

> --
> regards
> Jill Bowis
> http://www.kintaline.co.uk
> Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books
> Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
> Holidays in Scotland and Wales



Sun, 16 Apr 2006 02:25:40 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed


Quote:




> > > we are getting some day old chicks in the next day or 2 and i would
like
> > to
> > > stay organic with them this time...what kinds of feed are there
> > commercially
> > > available that are organic AND what are my options in preparing my
own?

> > > as for chickens, what kind of balance should i have with my free range
> > > chickens, i like to supplement there ranging with "scratch grains" are
> > these
> > > all the necessary grains they need? if so i guess i can just make up
my
> > own
> > > mix...

> > > thnx for any help and guidance on these items

> > where do you live?

> Central FL, USA

> > and what breed of birds are you getting?

> Cornish Rocks

meat birds which will need different feeding from the layers as you probably
know
otherwise they will be off their legs before you know it

and some laying hens (not sure on the breed off hand)

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > there are people from all over the world here but without knowing where
> you
> > are the advice varies a great deal

> > in general I haven't heard of an organic chick crumb I don't think and
it
> is
> > much better to use one with an anticoccidiostat to protect them from
> nasties
> > that can kill them very quickly however careful you are
> > Preparing your own - you can but you will not feed tehm as well as you
> would
> > with a proprietory feed as the ingredients are different - its also much
> > more expensive

> with the proprietary feeds, do they have hormones in them? thats what i'm
> wanting to stay away from

I am pretty sure that even in the USA there are no feeds with hormones in
them
Its a load of boony that the press and the AR people put out that every feed
ahs stuff in that is completley ludicrous
You can probably even still get GM free like most of ours is
Its better to feed well -
I think this might reassure you  - bare in mind I am in SCotland so am not
suggesting any one I use but simply found on line

http://www.nutrenaworld.com/Screens/BrandListing_Specialty.aspx?Brand...
follow the links for all the info
you want vitamins minerals etc etc
They have to declare other things
but talk to them - in my expereince feed producesr are happy to talk

--
regards
Jill Bowis
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales



Sun, 16 Apr 2006 02:59:33 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed

"Krys Francis" <

Quote:
> We never use coccidiostats in our chick or grower feed, with good
> management the chicks will build up their own immunity.

you can have all the good management you want
if it strikes it will take them
The very best have been hit and learnt the lesson
Unless you have birds in a completely biosecure and isolated environment
they will be challenged
They develop natural immunity later than the bugs
If you don't mind losing chicks then its not so much of a problem but with
bough in chicks like the poster it would be a false economy not ot take the
precuation of protecting them from the stresses of bugs that are a ways from
the ones where the parents came from

--
regards
Jill Bowis
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales



Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:57:06 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed


Quote:

>"Krys Francis" <
>> We never use coccidiostats in our chick or grower feed, with good
>> management the chicks will build up their own immunity.
>you can have all the good management you want
>if it strikes it will take them
>The very best have been hit and learnt the lesson
>Unless you have birds in a completely biosecure and isolated environment
>they will be challenged
>They develop natural immunity later than the bugs
>If you don't mind losing chicks then its not so much of a problem but with
>bough in chicks like the poster it would be a false economy not ot take the
>precuation of protecting them from the stresses of bugs that are a ways from
>the ones where the parents came from

As far as I can gather, the use of cider vinegar &/or probiotics & other
with similar action, the challenge from cocci can be reduced
dramatically.

Quote:

>--
>regards
>Jill Bowis
>http://www.kintaline.co.uk
>Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books
>Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
>Holidays in Scotland and Wales

--

Regards

Krys
www.lluestfarmpoultry.co.uk



Sun, 16 Apr 2006 20:35:28 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed

[snip]

Quote:
> Organic pellet feed from crumb to {*filter*} is available in US I've heard,
> though if it's anything like UK it is at least twice the price of non
> organic.

> We never use coccidiostats in our chick or grower feed, with good
> management the chicks will build up their own immunity.

[snip]

Same here. We had a small flock of backyard chickens for years in
Germany and raised them on boiled egg with porridge oatflakes and chives
until they were big enough to take cracked grains. My mum told me that's
how they raised chicks in her days (1930s, 40s). Worked fine for us.
Obviously this is only a solution for backyard flocks.
Here in Ireland the only available conventional chickfeed has
coccidiostats in it, monensin sodium to be precise, which according to
the EU will be banned now.
See this press release from the EU cooking.net">food Safety folks dated July 2003.
http://www.***.com/ |RAPID&lg=EN&display=
I had checked this out earlier in the year and found that monensin
sodium was apparently still permitted then, but not in poultry feeds.
See
http://www.***.com/ |RAPID&lg=EN&display=
(Question and Answers on antibiotics in feed, dated March 2003).
Nevertheless it was contained in the conventional chick feed available
at the local outlet and my enquiries as to how that could be got me
nowhere and I got very conflicting information from official sources. It
may be that it may not be added as growth promoter, but it may still be
added as coccidiostat. Dig that.

There is now an organic alternative, not much good to you in the US but
I'm sure there's an organic supplier somewhere.

Good luck,
Ute



Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:49:42 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed
There are some organic mills in the US but it is far from universal. From
Florida where I live the nearest mill is in Pennsylvania, over a thousand
miles, you  can truck grain from them, but the cost is double or more compared
to non organic, and you really need to have enough birds to eat the minimum
order in a month or so, or you will lose the feed.
Burl


Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:12:39 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed


Quote:
> There are some organic mills in the US but it is far from universal. From
> Florida where I live the nearest mill is in Pennsylvania, over a thousand
> miles, you  can truck grain from them, but the cost is double or more
compared
> to non organic, and you really need to have enough birds to eat the
minimum
> order in a month or so, or you will lose the feed.
> Burl

Just out of interest is the non-organic feed certified as non-GM? And also,
are you allowed to feed animal protein to birds?

Jay



Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:59:22 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed
Jay,
    Good questions, and I don't know the answers. None of my feed bags say
anything about GM grain, but would they have to?? Our pet foods here in the US
are full of chicken, beef, and pork "byproducts", i.e. all the parts unused by
people. I don't know how they would make it otherwise. I guess I don't know why
they wouldn't put it in chicken feed.....I am going to look into both issues.
Burl


Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:21:24 GMT
 organic chick feed & chicken feed
Dear Jill and all,
[see inserts]

Quote:


> > Obviously this is only a solution for backyard flocks.
> Its far from the only solution - it may be one that some people may wish to
> use
> but it is hardly an optimum balanced diet to provide potentially all the
> vitamins and minerals required

I didn't say that it's the only solution but that is 'only a solution
for backyard flocks'. It's one that has worked for us. We had fine hens
and we had buyers from surrounding villages who turned up year after
year to buy our surplus hens. We started out with 'spent' battery hens
and within a few years had birds who went into hiding for weeks only to
turn up with 20+ chicks in trail and we hardly ever lost chicks. So it
can't have been all wrong. As we were a vegetarian household there were
no meat or bones to be had but the hens did get table scraps, grains,
layers mash, and all the spilled grains, fruit and vegetable waste and
out-of-date dairy products from an organic foodhsop in town.

Quote:
> It was okay in the days when grains were really cheap and were also higher
> in background nutition than they are now
> THey were also frequently supplemented with alsorts of things around and
> about - like meat and bones from the table which is ilegal these days
> All the old books are full of amzing recipes and certainly a simple diet of
> a bit of grain was not what many folk used

> > Here in Ireland the only available conventional chickfeed has
> > coccidiostats in it, monensin sodium to be precise, which according to
> > the EU will be banned now.
> > See this press release from the EU cooking.net">food Safety folks dated July 2003.

> http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&d...
> 3/1058|0|RAPID&lg=EN&display=
> WHICH STATES:
> ""Council and Parliament prohibit antibiotics as growth promoters:
> Commissioner Byrne welcomes adoption of Regulation on feed additives """

> which is very different from using an antibiotic as an anticoccidiostat
> which will be why its allowed in chick crumbs I would imagine
> This is not a regulation that bans its use as a medication

But if the medication is contained in the feedingstuff as a matter of
course than to my mind it is a feed additive.
I contacted a German branch of the European Consumer Association and in
their view the use of Monensin Sodium in feedingstuff was prohibited.
They even urged me to follow this up and to let them know what the
repsonse was from the authoriries here (which is where I was told the
opposite....)

Quote:

> this is yet to be explored
> ""In the case of Coccidiostats - which are feed additives used to treat
> infections caused by a micro-organism in poultry - stricter measures will be
> introduced if they are of antibiotic origin. A new dossier for re-evaluation
> within a four year period will have to be presented and MRLs would be set to
> avoid risks to human or animal health. As is common practice already, feed
> additives would need to be clearly labelled.
> """
> so they are not banned in the EU

I was solely referring to Monensin Sodium, not to coccidiostats in
general.
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&d...0|RAPID&lg=EN&display=
states in the table at the bottom:
"Antibiotics authorised in feedingstuffs ... Monensin sodium: Cattle for
fattening"
Not a word about poultry.
Quote:

>  It
> > may be that it may not be added as growth promoter, but it may still be
> > added as coccidiostat. Dig that.
> they are completely different uses for different times of the growing period
> and for different veterinary reasons
> There is no conflict at all

I beg to differ - either it may be added to feedingstuff, or it may not.
Quote:

> If using home made rations its very difficult to get the correct balance of
> nutrition
> chickens eat very little in relation to their growth rate and their
> productivity so every thing they eat matters
> Its very easy to get the balance wrong so depriving birds of their optimum
> diet

I totally agree with you on that point. BTW Love your website. Too bad
you can't ship eggs to Ireland. I would be very interested in your Black
Rocks. Please let me know if the situation changes one day.
Sln,
Ute


Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:07:29 GMT
 
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