Questions from a Newbie...
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spagi..
#1 / 11
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 Questions from a Newbie... Quote:
> Greetings. As one of about 15 members of the human race that would
> actually spend an afternoon at Atlanta's Hartsfield Airport watching
> planes land...
Oh, there's a lot more than that. In fact, there's a large convention of such people meeting next week in Seattle (see http://www.***.com/ ~baahs/AI98.htm). Quote: > 4.) Is it possible, as a layman, to see the{*filter*}pit during flight?
Not on a US airline. According to FAA regulations, only a very restricted group of people are allowed in an airline's{*filter*}pit while in flight. But there's no problem on the ground. Usually, the{*filter*}pit door is open during check-in -- just poke your head in and say hello. In some cases they'll tell you're too busy to talk to you, but usually they're quite friendly. On non-US airlines, it's usually up to the pilot. Ask the flight attendant to convey a request to visit the{*filter*}pit; I've seldom been refused. Stefano Pagiola
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All opinions are my own.
850 N Randolph Str No.817, Arlington VA 22203, USA
http://www.***.com/
http://www.***.com/
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| Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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Gerard Fol
#2 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie...
<snip>
: 1.) How fast are typical jets going just before you take off.
around 150-160 knots=170-185 mph.
: 2.) How about landing?
About the same.
: 3.) Someone once said Hartsfield has one of the longest runways in the
: world. How long does a runway have to be to accomodate a 767 to
: landing? I understand there's a minimum, but on the average?
I think it is probably on the Boeing webpages, but maybe not. It varies
with the temperature, barometric pressure, airport altitude and the weight
of the airplane. Almost every kind of jet can be landed on a 5000 foot
runway, but most people don't like to do it. 8000 feet is nice and 10000
us better.
: 4.) Is it possible, as a layman, to see the{*filter*}pit during flight? I
: do some free-lance writing and have been offered a story involving
: business travel and nearly everyone I question about the story wants
: to know if they can see the{*filter*}pit? Do they ask a flight attendant?
: Write the airline in advance? Barge in during a coffee break? <g>
Not on U.S. registered aircraft. On many foreign lines, see the captain.
: 5.) I live in Northeast Atlanta and frequently see decending jets over
: our apartment complex...although I can't tell how high they are...and
: was wondering f they always use the same flight path when decending.
: Once in while, I notice they don't seem to be flying over very
: frequently.
Most follow roughly the same pattern at the end of their approach to an
airport, but in visual weather, the crew can deviate to some extent. In
instrument conditions, all planes will be as close to the same pattern as
they can be.
When the wind favors landing in the other directions, most of the planes
will be taking off in your direction and probably diverge on their various
routes before they reach you.
--
Gerry
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| Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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Matthew J. Smedle
#3 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie... I can answer this one...the other ones I'm not entirely sure about.
Quote: > 4.) Is it possible, as a layman, to see the{*filter*}pit during flight? I
> do some free-lance writing and have been offered a story involving
> business travel and nearly everyone I question about the story wants
> to know if they can see the{*filter*}pit? Do they ask a flight attendant?
> Write the airline in advance? Barge in during a coffee break? <g>
Any ship registered in the United States is forbidden by FAA regulations to allow an unauthorized person (i.e., non-airline or non-regulatory) in the{*filter*}pit during flight so no luck on your internal business traveling. However, most foreign carriers will allow it -- I took advantage of this on a flight on a British Airways 777 from London to Philadelphia and got to spend about 10 minutes chatting with the very friendly captain as we were flying over Newfoundland. -Matt
___________________________
Matt Smedley
http://www.***.com/ ~mjs174
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| Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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MechB7
#4 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie... Quote: >1.) How fast are typical jets going just before you take off. I
>usually try to fly Delta's 767s out of Hartsfield for business, and
>I've always wondered just how fast we are going down the runway.
...On a 737 rotation is around 130kts+ (150mph?) Climbout is around 160, accelerate to 210, then flaps up, then the FAA max of 250 below 10,000 feet. Above 10,000 or the class B airspace climb is 280-320 kts. Most airliners operate at about the same landing speeds, but the widebodies with highly swept wings like the 747 and DC-10 are a little faster, I think. (The 777 can go as slow as a 737 due to it's large flaps.) Quote: >2.) How about landing?
...About 135kts, but all speeds vary with weight. Approach speeds are in the area of 170-210kts (6 or more miles from the airport, limited to 250kts under 10,000') Quote: >3.) Someone once said Hartsfield has one of the longest runways in the
>world. How long does a runway have to be to accomodate a 767 to
>landing? I understand there's a minimum, but on the average?
Landing: 5,600' Takeoff: 7,900' Quote: >4.) Is it possible, as a layman, to see the{*filter*}pit during flight? I
>do some free-lance writing and have been offered a story involving
>business travel and nearly everyone I question about the story wants
>to know if they can see the{*filter*}pit? Do they ask a flight attendant?
>Write the airline in advance? Barge in during a coffee break? <g>
...I Wish! The FAA doesn't allow this. :-( you'll have to fly outside of the U.S. Quote: >5.) I live in Northeast Atlanta and frequently see decending jets over
>our apartment complex...although I can't tell how high they are...and
>was wondering f they always use the same flight path when decending.
>Once in while, I notice they don't seem to be flying over very
>frequently.
They will be landing and taking off into the wind, so they change direction, and if the airport has runways at different angles to each other they may use a differrunway depending on the wind. I'm not familiar with your airport or how far out from the airport you are, but there are often a couple different published approaches. Matt
Student Pilot 5.6PIC "Airline Pilot in Training", 747-400 Assembler.
http://www.***.com/
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| Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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G3AV8T
#5 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie... Eric:
When I was a kid, my parents would frequenlty take me to Atlanta Airport. I
would sit next to what is now the approach end of 26R for hours and watch the
jets come and go. (Not to mention the Connies, Electras...I feel old.)
The business jets I fly will have a take-off speed of about 120-135 knots
indicated depending on takeoff weight, airport elevation, and outside
temperature. I say indicated because the actual speed, or true airspeed, can be
higher due to airport altitude and outside temperature. And, of course, the
ground speed is affected by a headwind of tailwind. (A headwind is preferable.)
My final approach speed is usually between 120-140 knots indicated. This
number is based on the aircraft weight at landing and wind. The more I weigh,
the higher the approach speed. More speed is added for gusty winds. This is
usually bled off 10 to 15 knots over the runway threshold before touchdown.
Again, true airspeed and groundspeed will be affected by the same factors
mentioned above.
Someone in the newsgroup will be able to be able to answer your questions on
the 767. I think that the speeds are not going to be much different.
I would suggest you ask a flight attendant for a tour of the{*filter*}pit. Whether
or not you will get one depends on the airline's rules,{*filter*}pit work load, the
crews mood that day,...etc. I would definitely not suggest barging in.
Most airports have standard arrival and departure procedures for each runway in
use. The runway in use is ususally dertermined by the wind direction. Note the
wind direction on the days the aircraft are flying overhead. The wind direction
on the days the aircraft are not overhead will probably be different.
Gary
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it ain't fixed, don't fly it."
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| Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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Evan McElrav
#6 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie... Quote: >>4.) Is it possible, as a layman, to see the{*filter*}pit during flight? I >>do some free-lance writing and have been offered a story involving >>business travel and nearly everyone I question about the story wants >>to know if they can see the{*filter*}pit? Do they ask a flight attendant? >>Write the airline in advance? Barge in during a coffee break? <g> >...I Wish! The FAA doesn't allow this. :-( you'll have to fly outside
>of the U.S.
No, you don't have to fly outside the U.S., just on a non-U.S. carrier. Flights originating in the U.S. or with a final destination of the U.S. are no different than flights totally outside the U.S. By the same token, a U.S. carrier isn't allowed to give{*filter*}pit tours just becuase it operates a flight outside the U.S., which many do (Northwest's Amsterdam-Delhi servce, for example). I've been told Air Canada is an excellent for getting up front. In fact, they ususally offer a quick look around to all unaccompanied minors, assuming the captain is in the mood. On the ground is no problem though, assuming the crew has the time to
accomodate your wishes (better chances after a flight than before). I got to
spend about ten minutes in the first officer's seat of a B-1900D a few years
back (during a layover) and have got quick runovers of other aircraft
before, too, most recently one of Continental's 737-700s. The captain
actually extended an invitation to all the gearheads to stick their heads in
their way out the door.
Evan McElravy
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| Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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Matt Leffer
#7 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie... GO PACK! wrote in article ...
Quote: >Greetings. As one of about 15 members of the human race that would
>actually spend an afternoon at Atlanta's Hartsfield Airport watching
>planes land, I have a few questions regarding jet flight that I would
>like to pose to this group. I apologize if they sound a little trite,
>but believe me, I am really interested in the answers...
Don't feel alone! At dfw, the observation area is cram-packed some nights with people watching the planes come and go. People bring takeout and picknicks and make the airport a fun place!! matt
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| Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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Jim Wolpe
#8 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie... Quote:
> > 4.) Is it possible, as a layman, to see the{*filter*}pit during flight?
You can always go to the local airport and take a few flying lessons. This will tell you much more about "what it's like" than a zillion bytes of net.wisdom. Jim Wolper, Certificated Flight Instructor
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| Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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David W. Levi
#9 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie...
Quote: >On the ground is no problem though, assuming the crew has the time to
>accomodate your wishes (better chances after a flight than before). I got to
>spend about ten minutes in the first officer's seat of a B-1900D a few years
>back (during a layover) and have got quick runovers of other aircraft
>before, too, most recently one of Continental's 737-700s. The captain
>actually extended an invitation to all the gearheads to stick their heads in
>their way out the door.
Assuming they aren't on a quick turn or a chaotic schedule, my impressino is most flight crews love to show off thier toys. I've spent more a few delays up front chatting with the pilots. They'll be monitoring ATC, or the guys doing a repair, or whatever, but, to a large degree, they're bored too. Spent 45 minutes with a AA crew which was showing off the latest slick stuff the brand new plane they had could do. Pulling up waypoints, checking the number of hours on each engine, etc. Very nice stuff, and these guys were proud of it. Ask nice, and you'll generally get at least a quick look. - David
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| Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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Karl Swar
#10 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie... Quote: >Very nice stuff, and these guys were proud of it.
>Ask nice, and you'll generally get at least a quick look.
Or better. I had a very nice chat with the crew of a brand new 777-200IGW before our departure from LHR. They were proud of having operated the first scheduled eastbound trip across the pond the day before. I pointed out that if they checked the aircraft's log they would find that it had being doing the trip for a week already. The captain noted how the company never gave them the straight story and we moved on to more interesting topics about the plane and how it compared to the non-IGW 777 and to 747s, but a few hours into the flight a flight attendant showed up at my seat with a bottle of Dom Perignon, courtesy of our captain. :-) --
|WWW http://www.chicago.com/~kls/
"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person." - Andrew A. Rooney
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| Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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Dave Pulla
#11 / 11
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Questions from a Newbie...
Quote: > The business jets I fly will have a take-off speed of about 120-135 knots
> indicated depending on takeoff weight, airport elevation, and outside
> temperature.
The indicated take off speed, V2, on the jets I fly are not affected by air temp nor elevation. Position error is approx nil. Does Gulfstream actually do differently?
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| Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT |
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