INSLAW, CIA and the Danny Casolaro Murder 
Author Message
 INSLAW, CIA and the Danny Casolaro Murder
Newsgroups: alt.{*filter*},alt.activism,alt.society.civil-
liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
,soc.culture.usa
Path: cbnewsl!jad

Subject: Part I, The Casolaro {*filter*} --> The Feds' Theft of Inslaw
Software
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: North America
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:15:29 GMT

Followup-To: alt.{*filter*}
Keywords: CIA = {*filter*} Inc.,  Gov't officials subvert the People's
Constitution
Lines: 121

        I made the following transcript from a tape recording
        of a broadcast by Pacifica Radio station
               WBAI-FM (99.5)
               505 Eighth Ave., 19th Fl.
               New York, NY 10018       (212) 279-0707

Part one of six of the CIA/Danny Casolaro {*filter*}:

[Bill Hamilton is the chief executive officer of the Inslaw Corporation
(a software company) and the developer of its PROMIS software package.]

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
BILL HAMILTON:
Danny Casolaro was found dead in West {*filter*}ia. He had conversations with
three confidants --
three separate conversations which I found out about later. And he told
each of these three
confidants the same thing: that he had just then returned from West
{*filter*}ia where he had met
with a source and that he now knew everything that had happened to the
PROMIS software and
to Inslaw, but that he had to go back for one final meeting to pick up the
last piece of evidence.
And he was quite euphoric about his breakthrough. And he said to each of
these people that Bill
and Nancy Hamilton (My wife is named
Nancy; works here with me.) were going to be quite e{*filter*}d.

One of the confidants said: "I've had fifty telephone hours talking to
Danny." (This is someone
who lives on the West Coast.)  "During the past year I've spent about
fifty hours speaking to him
on the phone. Normally, he plays chess with me. Monday night, he was like
the cat who had
swallowed the canary. He knew he had broken this thing!"

So, if he was {*filter*}ed -- and I believe he clearly was -- he was {*filter*}ed
because he had found
out too much. The other thing I should mention to you is that, in the
final three or four weeks of
his life, several different people with backgrounds in US covert
intelligence operations -- who I
talk to on a regular basis and who Danny also talked to on a regular basis
-- directly told me that
they had told Danny that his life was in jeopardy because he
was having such success in breaking this corruption open. And they told me
that some specific
inquiries that Danny was making could get him killed. And the West
{*filter*}ia authorities have
never shown any interest in finding that kind of thing out from people
like me and others who
knew professionally what Danny was doing.

So, to rule a suicide, without examining this kind of information, is a
ruling which does not
deserve to be taken seriously.

PAUL DeRIENZO:
Can you give me some idea of those very specific things that Danny
Casolaro was inquiring
about?

BILL HAMILTON:
Danny was planning to go to a particular facility in the Washington, DC
area, owned by the
United States Government; a facility with connections to one or more of
the people who run "the
Octopus".  I think you can assume it's a covert intelligence facility,
from the way that it's
presented. And just going to this facility, I was warned, could get him
killed. The other thing that
he was doing was making inquiries, over the telephone, to the Syndicate in
Los Angeles. And
those inquiries had rattled the cages of some people out there. And there
was some concern that
they might respond to the rattling by killing Danny. The claim that I have
heard from some
sources is that someone with mob responsibilities (I guess you'd call it)
-- some person in the
mob -- is a member of the leadership of "the Octopus." And it's someone
from the Los Angeles
mob. And Danny was onto it.

PAUL DeRIENZO:
Are you familiar with any of the research that was done by the Christic
Institute in Washington,
DC concerning the Iran-Contra scandal?

BILL HAMILTON:
Yes. I have read it.

PAUL DeRIENZO:
To your knowledge, are there any parallels there?  Are some of those same
people involved, to
your knowledge?

BILL HAMILTON:
Yes. Danny's belief about who was running "the Octopus" -- about seven or
eight people -- some
of them are people whom the Christic Institute identified: [high CIA
officials] Theodore Shackley
and Thomas Clines; Danny also had people like [CIA officials] George
Pender and John P
Nichols, E. Howard Hunt [one of the CIA officers involved in President
Nixon's infamous
Watergate burglary, and allegedly a conspirator in the assassination of
President Kennedy], the
former Director of the CIA Richard Helms, [CIA officer] Ray Cline ....
Those are the people that
Danny had identified as the people running "the Octopus".

PAUL DeRIENZO:
Anything you'd like to add to this?

BILL HAMILTON:
I think it's important that reporters try to get to the bottom of this
because Danny was
investigating corruption in the US Department of Justice itself. It makes
problematical any
possibility that there could be a Federal investigation, unless there's an
independent counsel
appointed. So, the press and the Congress are really the only hopes that
we have to try to prove
whether Danny was {*filter*}ed or not.
                        (to be continued)
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

       This is one of countless stories unveiling the deeply corrupted
       and subverted state of our theoretically democratic Government.
       This story makes disgustingly obvious the fact that patriotism is
       not the waving of flags, the tying of yellow ribbons and the
mindless
       supporting of our Government, just because it happens to be ours.
       You don't support cancer just because you happen to have it.
       Patriotism is telling the truth to the people of our country
       in order that they may unite to conquer the anti-democratic cancer
       that is gradually destroying ours and our children's freedom.
       So please post the installments of this ongoing series to other
       networks, and post hard copies in public places, both on and off
       campus.  That would be a truly patriotic deed.

       John DiNardo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

Part two of six:

        I made the following transcript from a tape recording
        of a broadcast by Pacifica Radio station
               WBAI-FM (99.5)
               505 Eighth Ave., 19th Fl.
               New York, NY 10018       (212) 279-0707

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
                        (continuation)
[Bill Hamilton is the chief executive officer of the Inslaw Corporation (a
software company) and
the developer of its PROMIS software package.]

PAUL DeRIENZO:
I know that you won your suit and that there were some appeals by the
government. Has that
been completed yet -- the legal proceedings?

BILL HAMILTON:
No. The government appealed from the bankruptcy court to the US District
Court. The US
District Court, in November, 1989, affirmed the bankruptcy court saying
that the evidence was
sufficient to support the findings (quote) "under any standard of review."
(closed quotes). Then
the Justice Department appealed again to the United States Court of
Appeals this time. And a
three-judge panel in May said, on a narrow jurisdictional ruling, that we
won the case in the
wrong federal court. We should have tried it in a different federal court.
We are currently seeking
certiorari from the US Supreme Court because we think that the US Court of
Appeals
jurisdictional ruling was in error. But when the US Court of Appeals made
its jurisdictional ruling,
it left undisturbed the findings of the bankruptcy court that had already
been upheld by the district
court: that the Justice Department stole six million dollars worth of our
software through "trickery,
fraud and deceit", and then tried covertly to drive Inslaw out of
business.

PAUL DeRIENZO:
Have you received any settlement on that?

BILL HAMILTON:
I've never received a penny! And the forty-two largest United States
Attorneys' offices are still
running their caseloads with software that two federal courts said was
deliberately stolen by the
US Department of Justice headquarters in Washington.

PAUL DeRIENZO:
And that was Bill Hamilton, the chair of Inslaw, a software producing
company in Washington,
DC that has been battling the United States Government since the early
1980's and whose case
led to another window into the workings of the "Secret Team",
"the Octopus", and the death of Danny Casolaro.

ROBERT KNIGHT:
This is UNDERCURRENTS. You've just heard Bill Hamilton, a man at the
center of a pattern of
deception, corruption and implications that are so tremendous that it's
difficult to even
encompass them all.

This is WBAI, New York. before continuing, it is essential that you call
this radio station. Because
now, as Bill Hamilton says, the issue has been joined. What can you expect
from the Federal
Government if, indeed, it is involved in such a wide-ranging {*filter*}?

Well, we know that what we're going to do is continue to pursue this and
bring you the kind of
information you've been listening to for a solid half-hour this morning
here on
UNDERCURRENTS.  (212)279-3400 is the number to call. If you want to have
an
independent reportorial investigative arm, support us now and let us know
that this is important
to you.

Let me just try and delineate some of the implications of this.  A
reporter gets close to the story.
A reporter ends up dead.  A reporter looks into something that is so big
that it involves a global
{*filter*}.

Let's just take one little aspect of that: the case-tracking abilities of
this software. You remember,
during this interview that Paul DeRienzo produced, that Bill Hamilton said
that copies of that
software ended up in places like Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and around
the world. In countries
....

PAUL DeRIENZO:
Iraq, as well, in 1987. As a matter of fact, Richard Secord, according to
an Iranian arms dealer
who is now in jail, made the sales pitch.

ROBERT KNIGHT:
Let's recall who Richard Secord is. The former commander of the air wing
in Vietnam. In it's
program, Dang Pao (?), the ambiance out of which was shipped a crippling
incapacitation of
{*filter*}e into the United States. He ends up involved with Southern Air
during the Iran-Contra period, and those airplanes are used for shipping
arms out of this country,
and are used, according to various reports that you've heard here and
elsewhere, for shipping
{*filter*} into the United States.
                       (to be continued)
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

       This is one of countless stories unveiling the deeply corrupted
       and subverted state of our theoretically democratic Government.
       This story makes disgustingly obvious the fact that patriotism
       is not the waving of flags, the tying of yellow ribbons and the
       supporting of the Government, just because it happens to be ours.
       You don't support cancer just because you happen to have it.
       Patriotism is telling the truth to the people of our country
       in order that they may unite to conquer the anti-democratic
       cancer that is gradually destroying ours and our children's
       freedom. So please post the installments of this ongoing series
       to other bulletin boards, and post hard copies in public places,
       both on and off campus.  That would be a truly patriotic deed.

       John DiNardo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------

Part three of six:

        I made the following transcript from a tape recording
        of a broadcast by Pacifica Radio station
               WBAI-FM (99.5)
               505 Eighth Ave., 19th Fl.
               New York, NY 10018       (212) 279-0707

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
                        (continuation)
ROBERT KNIGHT:
Well, there is another kind of product that is just as powerful and just
as deadly to the indigenous
community. One application --just very broadly speaking as a former
systems analyst myself --is
that tracking software can easily be modified, in terms of the attributes
of description, so that
instead of federal cases in the United States, it can be used to track the
activities and to keep a
centralized log of the repression of individuals -- of citizens within a
country. Think about Saudi
Arabia; a slave state that did not officially change its laws regarding
slavery; the indentured
servitude of migrant workers who come into that country and become,
effectively, the property of
the ownership class, and cannot leave without an exit visa. They belong to
somebody else.

Imagine the applications of software like this! Imagine what happens to
people who don't get
their hands stamped at elections in El Salvador, because not to vote for
the pre-selected right
wing candidates during the mid-1980's was considered by that US-backed
military government as tantamount to treason.

Area code (212) 279-3400.

We're talking about subtle material here, but that which can have an
utterly profound effect on
the state of human rights around the world. Something that illegally and
mysteriously and --
through the operations of the National Security Council members,
Robert McFarlane, the "secret team", Richard Secord, and Ed Messe, Ronald
Reagan and
cronies -- something that starts turning up around US-linked repressive
governments around the
world. And Iraq is included among them.

279-3400, area code (212)... If we are revealing to you new dimensions of
the operations of your
government ... This is not a federal investigation. This is an
UNDERCURRENTS investigation.
This is a WBAI investigation. And we're obviously operating at the
threshold of danger. I say
that, not to aggrandize the efforts of the people at this particular
place, but there is the matter of
the death of Danny Casolaro, implying the importance that people NOT know
that this is going
on.

279-3400 ... If you want to defy, you can defy with your money.  You can
defy with your tax-
deductible donations to WBAI, and let us know that we need to do this. Let
us know that YOU
need to know this. We are trying to move the consciousness of this city,
this country, and this
world beyond the spy syndrome where only Robert Gates has a need to know.
We're saying that
YOU have a need to know.

I remember, as news director, reporting on how, during the elections in El
Salvador, the Israelis
WERE INVOLVED in tracking individuals vis-a-vis voting. Were they using
this software?  We're
going to find out! But it's essential that you help us.

Let's look at the astonishing implications of this use of stolen tracking
software to keep track of
individuals in repressive governments, linked with the United States
around the world, using
software that was stolen from a company that refused to roll over to Ed
Meese and cronies [e.g.
President Reagan].

PAUL DeRIENZO:
I can't wait until I can tell people, over-the-air, the address of that
facility in Washington, DC
where anybody who goes to it is threatened with death. Maybe we could all
go down there.
                       (to be continued)
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

       This is one of countless stories unveiling the deeply corrupted
       and subverted state of our theoretically democratic Government.
       This story makes disgustingly obvious the fact that patriotism
       is not the waving of flags, the tying of yellow ribbons and the
       supporting of the Government, just because it happens to be ours.
       You don't support cancer just because you happen to have it.
       Patriotism is telling the truth to the people of our country
       in order that they may unite to conquer the anti-democratic
       cancer that is gradually destroying ours and our children's
       freedom. So please post the installments of this ongoing series
       to other bulletin boards, and post hard copies in public places,
       both on and off campus.  That would be a truly patriotic deed.

       John DiNardo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

Part four of six:

        I made the following transcript from a tape recording
        of a broadcast by Pacifica Radio station
               WBAI-FM (99.5)
               505 Eighth Ave., 19th Fl.
               New York, NY 10018       (212) 279-0707

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
                        (continuation)
PAUL DeRIENZO:
The next aspect of this case is the connection to BCCI, the Bank of Credit
Commerce
International. It turns out that BCCI was laundering monies that were
raised through the illegal
sales of this software. You know, it's very interesting because everybody
is screaming: "Well how
could BCCI be operating without the regulators doing anything about it
when obviously there
were flags going up and there was evidence going back seven, eight years
that BCCI was
involved in drug-running and in laundering of drug money, and in various
nefarious schemes?"
Well, the reason that the regulators and the Congressional hearings don't
seem to want to touch
upon is that, very possibly and probably, BCCI had direct ties to the
Justice Department and to
the regulators who were
supposed to be watching the store. In fact, the reason that BCCI was not
investigated and not
prosecuted a lot earlier for its activities was because it was providing
necessary services --a full
service bank.

ROBERT KNIGHT:
279-3400, area code (212) .... We need you to say: "Go ahead.  Go further.
Take us into the
realms of the esoteric knowledge of a deadly {*filter*}." We are in a
position to create so many
headaches -- to bring around so much that has gone around. We're going to
make so much
trouble! The people who do these things have tools and techniques and
dirty business beyond
your imagining.

PAUL DeRIENZO:
Well, what's there to say except: Is this the beginning of death squads in
America? Are
journalists fair play now for people who are afraid of the light of day
shining into the events of the
world -- shining into what happens in the distant corners of this country,
out of sight of the
majority of the people who don't realize that their tax money and their
representatives are
involved in all kinds of nefarious illegal schemings that cause so much
pain and destruction?

It's a sad story, and one that WBAI and other progressive journalists are
going to stick to, and
won't be intimidated and scared away from because of the death of Danny
Casolaro.

ANDREW PHILLIPS:

Quote:
>From our sister station in California, compliments of Pamela Burton at

the Pacifica Archives,
just today we received an interview conducted by a colleague of mine ....
His name is Ian
Masters.  And he did an interview at KPFK, Los Angeles ....

PAUL DeRIENZO:
Well, this is an interview with Michael Riconosciuto. He is in the Pierce
County Jail in Tacoma,
Washington where he was arrested for allegedly running the largest
methamphetamine
laboratory in United States history -- ever busted in United States
history.  However, he says he
was set up; that his factory was not involved in drug manufacturing, and
that he, in fact, was
being punished for appearing before the Jack Brooks Committee to give
testimony of the
involvement of intelligence agencies in the Inslaw matter.  Riconosciuto
is a computer expert. He
claims to have been an employee of the Wackenhut Corporation, to have
worked on the
Cabazon Indian Reservation and to have actually rewritten and improved the
Inslaw PROMIS
software after it was stolen for export to intelligence agencies in Iraq,
Israel, Iran, Saudi Arabia,
Canada, and a number of other countries -- eighty-eight countries in all,
according to Inslaw CEO
Bill Hamilton.

And Riconosciuto gave this interview from jail. He has information about
things that only
someone who is close to these events would know. This is a fellow who, two
or three weeks after
he gave testimony to the Brooks Committee, was arrested on these charges
...

ANDREW PHILLIPS:
Texas Congressman Jack Brooks' Judiciary Committee has been looking into
the affair for the
last two years, but only issued subpoenas last July. Brooks is believed to
have interviewed Edwin
Meese, former Attorney General under Reagan and his friends.
According to the Hamiltons -- we're going to hear from Bill Hamilton later
on -- the files of the
Justice Department chief litigating attorney on this case have
disappeared.

IAN MASTERS:
He has a background in US Intelligence: you've always got to be skeptical
of that claim, but he
certainly does appear to have knowledge of government contracts and
activities. He feels that
he's being framed by Earl W. Brian and Peter Videnieks. They set him up on
a drug charge
because he wouldn't cooperate with them.  Videnieks evidently warned him
against cooperating
with the House Judiciary Committee on the Inslaw investigation.

Now, the reason I'm going to talk, in a moment, to Riconosciuto is that he
is the individual who
allegedly altered this Inslaw software to give it this extra capability,
to make it lucrative and able
to generate all this money and all these sales.
                      (to be continued)
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

       This is one of countless stories unveiling the deeply corrupted
       and subverted state of our theoretically democratic Government.
       This story makes disgustingly obvious the fact that patriotism
       is not the waving of flags, the tying of yellow ribbons and the
       supporting of the Government, just because it happens to be ours.
       You don't support cancer just because you happen to have it.
       Patriotism is telling the truth to the people of our country
       in order that they may unite to conquer the anti-democratic
       cancer that is gradually destroying ours and our children's
       freedom. So please post the installments of this ongoing series
       to other bulletin boards, and post hard copies in public places,
       both on and off campus.  That would be a truly patriotic deed.

       John DiNardo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------

Part five of six:

       The following excerpts are from
       IN THESE TIMES, May 29 to June 11, 1991.
       Back issues and subscriptions can be ordered
       by calling (312) 772-0100.

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
....

Inslaw's owners now believe that the Justice Department stole their
software for three possible
reasons: to reward businessman and arms dealer Earl W. Brian with a
profitable product for his
part in the alleged arms-for-hostages deal between the 1980 Reagan-Bush
campaign team and
representatives of Iran's Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini; to provide
off-the-book financing for the
Administration's covert operations; and to provide the US
National Security Agency with a computerized Trojan horse to market to the
international
intelligence community.

HE'S GOT PROMIS:
In January 1974, the non-profit Institute for Law and Social Research,
known as Inslaw, received
the first in a series of federal contracts to design a computer program
that the Justice
Department could use to track cases through the entire US court system.

Bill Hamilton, company founder and president, is the computer whiz who
developed the
statistical database that is at the center of the controversy. It is known
as Prosecutor's
Management Information (PROMIS). PROMIS was designed to help federal
prosecutors
maintain a running record of upcoming deadlines and keep track of why
cases were won, lost or
dismissed.

But what makes PROMIS unique is the program's adaptability, embodied in a
special subsystem
that, among other things, automatically translates the terminology from
one judicial jurisdiction to
another. For example, PROMIS can integrate information from court
proceedings in different
states. To PROMIS, Chicago's "cases" are the same as Los Angeles's
"dockets".

The PROMIS potential, however, is not limited to the court system.  Says
Hamilton: "Because of
that subsystem that allows it to change the codes, you can change PROMIS
so that it tracks
clients for social services."  Or it can track criminals for police
departments.  In fact, the PROMIS
system makes it easy for any bureaucracy to monitor a large number of
individuals for whatever
reason.

One US official who saw promise in PROMIS was Edwin Meese, then-counselor
to President
Reagan who later became US attorney-general. In April 1981, Meese told a
luncheon gathering
of law-enforcement officials: "What the PROMIS program and what Inslaw
have done provides
one of the greatest opportunities for success in the future, because it
has to do with good
planning and good use of management information."

QUID PRO QUOS?
But the Administration had plans of its own and, according to Hamilton,
was already conspiring to
appropriate his invention.

In May of that year, Donald Santarelli, an Inslaw lawyer who had been a
presidential appointee in
the Nixon Justice Department, attended a White House meeting with Meese.
Hamilton, in a court
affidavit, said that Santarelli told him that during that meeting
Santarelli was warned that although the Reagan Justice Department planned
to install PROMIS
in all 94 US Attorneys' offices and in all of the department's
investigative agencies, Inslaw
"should not expect to automatically receive the contract [to install the
software]."  Hamilton says
that this exchange indicates that the White House, and not the Justice
Department, was calling
the shots, and that therefore the PROMIS procurement was a political deal.

According to Hamilton's affidavit, the stage was set for the software
company's takeover in the
summer of 1981 -- the year that Inslaw became a for-profit company -- when
the Justice
Department removed two key department officials involved in the PROMIS
procurement:
Patricia Goodrich, then project manager at the Justice Department for
PROMIS, and Betty
Thomas, then contracting officer in charge of purchasing the PROMIS
software and
administering the resulting contract.

Goodrich's position was filled by C. Madison Brewer, a former Inslaw
employee whom Hamilton
had fired in 1976. Thomas -- who, according to Hamilton's affidavit, was
told to step aside or be
charged with "non-feasance" -- was replaced by Peter Videnieks, formerly
with the US Customs
Service. Before moving over to the Justice Department and taking charge of
the PROMIS
program in September 1981, Videnieks had administered three contracts
between the Customs
Service and Hadron, Inc., a company that was in the business of
integrating information-
managing systems like PROMIS into federal agencies. Hadron is a subsidiary
of Biotech Capital
Corp., which was owned by Earl Brian. (In the fall of 1987, Biotech
Capital was renamed
Infotechnology, Inc., a Brian-owned holding company that controls
Financial News Network and
United Press International.)

In the early `70s, Brian served as California's Secretary of Health and
Welfare under then-
Governor Ronald Reagan. He left public service in 1974 to deal arms to the
Shah's Iran.

In April of this year, former Israeli intelligence officer Ari Ben-Menashe
told IN THESE TIMES
that Brian was one of two 1980 Reagan-Bush campaign representatives who,
in early 1980,
approached Iran about striking a deal to have the fifty-two American
hostages
(seized by Iranian students in November 1979) held until after the 1980 US
Presidential Election.
(see IN THESE TIMES, April 17.)

Ben-Menashe claims that the second US campaign representative was Robert
McFarlane, who
in 1983 became Reagan's National Security Advisor. Both Brian and
McFarlane, according to
Ben-Menashe, "worked very closely with Robert Gates -- a man who at the
time was an aide to
then-President Jimmy Carter's CIA Director Stansfield Turner, and whom
Bush has now
nominated to replace CIA Director William Webster.
   [JD: Robert Gates is the new Director of Central Intelligence.]

It has also been reported that Brian and Gates participated in
negotiations in Paris in October
1980 where the alleged arms-for-hostages deal was finalized.
                        (to be continued)
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

       This is one of countless stories unveiling the deeply corrupted
       and subverted state of our theoretically democratic Government.
       This story makes disgustingly obvious the fact that patriotism
       is not the waving of flags, the tying of yellow ribbons and the
       supporting of the Government, just because it happens to be ours.
       You don't support cancer just because you happen to have it.
       Patriotism is telling the truth to the people of our country
       in order that they may unite to conquer the anti-democratic
       cancer that is gradually destroying ours and our children's
       freedom.



Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:00:00 GMT
 
 [ 1 post ] 

 Relevant Pages 

1. Danny Keren

2. PING DANNY MIN (NU<MBER 4)

3. ps Danny, the topic wasn't in my message

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7. IdEAL ORDER Psychic TV and the Gates CIA Confirmation Hearings

8. Hatton: CIA or ET

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