"No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE 
Author Message
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE


Quote:
> << The point is that if psychiatrists want to treat bona-
> fide brain disease, they must do so as neurologists, internists,
> endocrinologists, surgeons, or as specialists in one of the other,
> the real, health care specialties - not as psychiatrists. Treatment
> of real brain disease falls within the scope of the other
> specialties.  Historically, treatment of real brain disease has not
> fallen within the scope of psychiatry.  It's time to stop the
> pretense that psychiatry is a type of health care.  The American
> Board of Psychiatry and Neurology should be renamed the American
> Board of Neurology, and there should be no more specialty
> certifications in psychiatry.  Organizations that formally
> represent physicians such as the American Medical Association and
> American Osteopathic Association and similar organizations in other
> countries should cease to recognize psychiatry as a bona-fide
> branch of the medical profession.

> THE AUTHOR, Lawrence Stevens, is a lawyer whose practice has
> included representing psychiatric "patients".  His pamphlets are
> not copyrighted.  Feel free to make copies.

> The above is very true. Mental illness is indeed a brain based illness,
this is
> what Ive been harping about forever and people are telling me Im crazy.
The
> diagnosis and treatment of mental illness should be the forte of Neurology
and
> not psychiatry. Psychiatrists actually know very little about
> brain/Neuroscience. And if mental illness is a brain disease as the
evidence is
> accumulating that it is, then it only follows that severe forms of mental
> illness be treated as Neuro diseases.

> Also keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies list their psychiatric
> {*filter*} under "central nervous system" and not under "psychiatry {*filter*}."
Ive
> long said that psychiatry should be totally abolished as a separate branch
of
> medicine and it should be formally absorbed into Neurology. This would be
one
> of the greatest things to happen to the field of mental illness EVER.
Maybe
> then we would begin seeing some real headway into the diagnosis and
treatment
> of severe mentalillness.

> Using psychology to diagnose and treat severe mental illness is a dead
end.
> Psychiatry is based in psychology. Psychiatry is a crockof shit. All
severe
> forms of mental illness should be treated as brain based diseases and that
will
> only happen when psychiatry is formally merged into Neurology.

> Mental illness is a neurological disease. Not a "psychological" problem.

> Eric

LOL  The meds you are taking are dulling your intelligence.

The author believes only about 5% of all psychiatric disorders are actual
brain diseases, necessitation medical treatment.

The author believes 95% of all so called psychiatric disorders are emotional
illnesses, necessitating reeducation in thinking and way of living!

The author would have the 5% with bonafide brain disease treated by
neurologists, and 95% of all psychiatric patients (worried well) treated by
therapists while psychiatry iyself beABOLISHED, so wouldnt have all these
people on {*filter*} for essentially "miseducation" of the mind..

..

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> Steroids caused my depression...prednisone should be used conservatively

> http://www.***.com/

> MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation)
> http://www.***.com/



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:38:29 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE

Quote:



> > << The point is that if psychiatrists want to treat bona-
> > fide brain disease, they must do so as neurologists, internists,
> > endocrinologists, surgeons, or as specialists in one of the other,
> > the real, health care specialties - not as psychiatrists. Treatment
> > of real brain disease falls within the scope of the other
> > specialties.  Historically, treatment of real brain disease has not
> > fallen within the scope of psychiatry.  It's time to stop the
> > pretense that psychiatry is a type of health care.  The American
> > Board of Psychiatry and Neurology should be renamed the American
> > Board of Neurology, and there should be no more specialty
> > certifications in psychiatry.  Organizations that formally
> > represent physicians such as the American Medical Association and
> > American Osteopathic Association and similar organizations in other
> > countries should cease to recognize psychiatry as a bona-fide
> > branch of the medical profession.

> > THE AUTHOR, Lawrence Stevens, is a lawyer whose practice has
> > included representing psychiatric "patients".  His pamphlets are
> > not copyrighted.  Feel free to make copies.

> > The above is very true. Mental illness is indeed a brain based illness,
> this is
> > what Ive been harping about forever and people are telling me Im crazy.
> The
> > diagnosis and treatment of mental illness should be the forte of Neurology
> and
> > not psychiatry. Psychiatrists actually know very little about
> > brain/Neuroscience. And if mental illness is a brain disease as the
> evidence is
> > accumulating that it is, then it only follows that severe forms of mental
> > illness be treated as Neuro diseases.

> > Also keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies list their psychiatric
> > {*filter*} under "central nervous system" and not under "psychiatry {*filter*}."
> Ive
> > long said that psychiatry should be totally abolished as a separate branch
> of
> > medicine and it should be formally absorbed into Neurology. This would be
> one
> > of the greatest things to happen to the field of mental illness EVER.
> Maybe
> > then we would begin seeing some real headway into the diagnosis and
> treatment
> > of severe mentalillness.

> > Using psychology to diagnose and treat severe mental illness is a dead
> end.
> > Psychiatry is based in psychology. Psychiatry is a crockof shit. All
> severe
> > forms of mental illness should be treated as brain based diseases and that
> will
> > only happen when psychiatry is formally merged into Neurology.

> > Mental illness is a neurological disease. Not a "psychological" problem.

> > Eric

> LOL  The meds you are taking are dulling your intelligence.

> The author believes only about 5% of all psychiatric disorders are actual
> brain diseases, necessitation medical treatment.

> The author believes 95% of all so called psychiatric disorders are emotional
> illnesses, necessitating reeducation in thinking and way of living!

> The author would have the 5% with bonafide brain disease treated by
> neurologists, and 95% of all psychiatric patients (worried well) treated by
> therapists while psychiatry iyself beABOLISHED, so wouldnt have all these
> people on {*filter*} for essentially "miseducation" of the mind..

> ..

> > Steroids caused my depression...prednisone should be used conservatively

> > http://www.***.com/

> > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation)
> > http://www.***.com/

Well,

I've got a proposition to make.  Seems that Eric and Steve
and Bob and everyone here are constantly embroiled in
the controversy about depression and mental illness belonging
to this or that branch of medicine - should it be Neurology,
should it be Endocrinology, should it be Psychiatry, or
Counselling or Cognitive Therapy, etc. Where does the
treatment of mental illness belong?

Well, may I suggest that the treatment of mental illness
is a prescriptive affair?  Unlike other illnesses, mental
illness is a biological brain state that causes great
distress and even somatic illness of grave proportions?
In which case it may be instructive to see how a "happy"
or "relatively content" person's brain is, compare and
see the difference.  And for the hardier souls try to
imitate that chemically or physically.  Or is this what
is currently being done?

Squiggles



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:42:00 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE

Quote:




> > > << The point is that if psychiatrists want to treat bona-
> > > fide brain disease, they must do so as neurologists, internists,
> > > endocrinologists, surgeons, or as specialists in one of the other,
> > > the real, health care specialties - not as psychiatrists. Treatment
> > > of real brain disease falls within the scope of the other
> > > specialties.  Historically, treatment of real brain disease has not
> > > fallen within the scope of psychiatry.  It's time to stop the
> > > pretense that psychiatry is a type of health care.  The American
> > > Board of Psychiatry and Neurology should be renamed the American
> > > Board of Neurology, and there should be no more specialty
> > > certifications in psychiatry.  Organizations that formally
> > > represent physicians such as the American Medical Association and
> > > American Osteopathic Association and similar organizations in other
> > > countries should cease to recognize psychiatry as a bona-fide
> > > branch of the medical profession.

> > > THE AUTHOR, Lawrence Stevens, is a lawyer whose practice has
> > > included representing psychiatric "patients".  His pamphlets are
> > > not copyrighted.  Feel free to make copies.

> > > The above is very true. Mental illness is indeed a brain based illness,
> > this is
> > > what Ive been harping about forever and people are telling me Im crazy.
> > The
> > > diagnosis and treatment of mental illness should be the forte of Neurology
> > and
> > > not psychiatry. Psychiatrists actually know very little about
> > > brain/Neuroscience. And if mental illness is a brain disease as the
> > evidence is
> > > accumulating that it is, then it only follows that severe forms of mental
> > > illness be treated as Neuro diseases.

> > > Also keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies list their psychiatric
> > > {*filter*} under "central nervous system" and not under "psychiatry {*filter*}."
> > Ive
> > > long said that psychiatry should be totally abolished as a separate branch
> > of
> > > medicine and it should be formally absorbed into Neurology. This would be
> > one
> > > of the greatest things to happen to the field of mental illness EVER.
> > Maybe
> > > then we would begin seeing some real headway into the diagnosis and
> > treatment
> > > of severe mentalillness.

> > > Using psychology to diagnose and treat severe mental illness is a dead
> > end.
> > > Psychiatry is based in psychology. Psychiatry is a crockof shit. All
> > severe
> > > forms of mental illness should be treated as brain based diseases and that
> > will
> > > only happen when psychiatry is formally merged into Neurology.

> > > Mental illness is a neurological disease. Not a "psychological" problem.

> > > Eric

> > LOL  The meds you are taking are dulling your intelligence.

> > The author believes only about 5% of all psychiatric disorders are actual
> > brain diseases, necessitation medical treatment.

> > The author believes 95% of all so called psychiatric disorders are emotional
> > illnesses, necessitating reeducation in thinking and way of living!

> > The author would have the 5% with bonafide brain disease treated by
> > neurologists, and 95% of all psychiatric patients (worried well) treated by
> > therapists while psychiatry iyself beABOLISHED, so wouldnt have all these
> > people on {*filter*} for essentially "miseducation" of the mind..

> > ..

Thank you, say no for saving me that effort.  Since folks feel I am giving Eric a
hard time, I decided to let that post go and see if anyone else would chose to
respond.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > > Steroids caused my depression...prednisone should be used conservatively

> > > http://www.***.com/

> > > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation)
> > > http://www.***.com/

> Well,

> I've got a proposition to make.  Seems that Eric and Steve
> and Bob and everyone here are constantly embroiled in
> the controversy about depression and mental illness belonging
> to this or that branch of medicine - should it be Neurology,
> should it be Endocrinology, should it be Psychiatry, or
> Counselling or Cognitive Therapy, etc. Where does the
> treatment of mental illness belong?

> Well, may I suggest that the treatment of mental illness
> is a prescriptive affair?  Unlike other illnesses, mental
> illness is a biological brain state that causes great
> distress and even somatic illness of grave proportions?
> In which case it may be instructive to see how a "happy"
> or "relatively content" person's brain is, compare and
> see the difference.  And for the hardier souls try to
> imitate that chemically or physically.  Or is this what
> is currently being done?

> Squiggles

At present there is no test that can show a difference between 'normal' peoples
brains and depressed or whatever peoples brains in terms of chemical make-up.
There is the beginning of a tiny glimmer in diagnostic imaging of the brain.  What
we may have, soon, is a way to indicate that person x is depressed, person y is
bi-polar, and person z is not diagnosed with any disease, even though the
psychiatrist wants to stick some convenient label on her.

Still, after we reach that point we still have the difficulty of how to treat the
individual, more correct diagnosis is part of the solution, more effective
treatment is the other 1/2.



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:38:23 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE

Quote:





> > > > << The point is that if psychiatrists want to treat bona-
> > > > fide brain disease, they must do so as neurologists, internists,
> > > > endocrinologists, surgeons, or as specialists in one of the other,
> > > > the real, health care specialties - not as psychiatrists. Treatment
> > > > of real brain disease falls within the scope of the other
> > > > specialties.  Historically, treatment of real brain disease has not
> > > > fallen within the scope of psychiatry.  It's time to stop the
> > > > pretense that psychiatry is a type of health care.  The American
> > > > Board of Psychiatry and Neurology should be renamed the American
> > > > Board of Neurology, and there should be no more specialty
> > > > certifications in psychiatry.  Organizations that formally
> > > > represent physicians such as the American Medical Association and
> > > > American Osteopathic Association and similar organizations in other
> > > > countries should cease to recognize psychiatry as a bona-fide
> > > > branch of the medical profession.

> > > > THE AUTHOR, Lawrence Stevens, is a lawyer whose practice has
> > > > included representing psychiatric "patients".  His pamphlets are
> > > > not copyrighted.  Feel free to make copies.

> > > > The above is very true. Mental illness is indeed a brain based illness,
> > > this is
> > > > what Ive been harping about forever and people are telling me Im crazy.
> > > The
> > > > diagnosis and treatment of mental illness should be the forte of Neurology
> > > and
> > > > not psychiatry. Psychiatrists actually know very little about
> > > > brain/Neuroscience. And if mental illness is a brain disease as the
> > > evidence is
> > > > accumulating that it is, then it only follows that severe forms of mental
> > > > illness be treated as Neuro diseases.

> > > > Also keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies list their psychiatric
> > > > {*filter*} under "central nervous system" and not under "psychiatry {*filter*}."
> > > Ive
> > > > long said that psychiatry should be totally abolished as a separate branch
> > > of
> > > > medicine and it should be formally absorbed into Neurology. This would be
> > > one
> > > > of the greatest things to happen to the field of mental illness EVER.
> > > Maybe
> > > > then we would begin seeing some real headway into the diagnosis and
> > > treatment
> > > > of severe mentalillness.

> > > > Using psychology to diagnose and treat severe mental illness is a dead
> > > end.
> > > > Psychiatry is based in psychology. Psychiatry is a crockof shit. All
> > > severe
> > > > forms of mental illness should be treated as brain based diseases and that
> > > will
> > > > only happen when psychiatry is formally merged into Neurology.

> > > > Mental illness is a neurological disease. Not a "psychological" problem.

> > > > Eric

> > > LOL  The meds you are taking are dulling your intelligence.

> > > The author believes only about 5% of all psychiatric disorders are actual
> > > brain diseases, necessitation medical treatment.

> > > The author believes 95% of all so called psychiatric disorders are emotional
> > > illnesses, necessitating reeducation in thinking and way of living!

> > > The author would have the 5% with bonafide brain disease treated by
> > > neurologists, and 95% of all psychiatric patients (worried well) treated by
> > > therapists while psychiatry iyself beABOLISHED, so wouldnt have all these
> > > people on {*filter*} for essentially "miseducation" of the mind..

> > > ..

> Thank you, say no for saving me that effort.  Since folks feel I am giving Eric a
> hard time, I decided to let that post go and see if anyone else would chose to
> respond.

> > > > Steroids caused my depression...prednisone should be used conservatively

> > > > http://www.***.com/

> > > > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation)
> > > > http://www.***.com/

> > Well,

> > I've got a proposition to make.  Seems that Eric and Steve
> > and Bob and everyone here are constantly embroiled in
> > the controversy about depression and mental illness belonging
> > to this or that branch of medicine - should it be Neurology,
> > should it be Endocrinology, should it be Psychiatry, or
> > Counselling or Cognitive Therapy, etc. Where does the
> > treatment of mental illness belong?

> > Well, may I suggest that the treatment of mental illness
> > is a prescriptive affair?  Unlike other illnesses, mental
> > illness is a biological brain state that causes great
> > distress and even somatic illness of grave proportions?
> > In which case it may be instructive to see how a "happy"
> > or "relatively content" person's brain is, compare and
> > see the difference.  And for the hardier souls try to
> > imitate that chemically or physically.  Or is this what
> > is currently being done?

> > Squiggles

> At present there is no test that can show a difference between 'normal' peoples
> brains and depressed or whatever peoples brains in terms of chemical make-up.
> There is the beginning of a tiny glimmer in diagnostic imaging of the brain.  What
> we may have, soon, is a way to indicate that person x is depressed, person y is
> bi-polar, and person z is not diagnosed with any disease, even though the
> psychiatrist wants to stick some convenient label on her.

> Still, after we reach that point we still have the difficulty of how to treat the
> individual, more correct diagnosis is part of the solution, more effective
> treatment is the other 1/2.

If this is the case Steve, and I would not be surprised since
it's literally a global brain problem, then just converting
Psychiatry to Neurology is like cutting off the greater percentage
of feedback that you get from a talking person.  Not much
of an advance for diagnosis, given the present limited knowledge
of the brain.  So, Eric is dreaming - I always said this guy's
a poet.

Squiggles



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:05:53 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE


Quote:
> << LOL  The meds you are taking are dulling your intelligence.

> >The author believes only about 5% of all psychiatric disorders are actual
> brain diseases, necessitation medical treatment.

> No...the meds are not dulling my intelligence at all.

Yes, your meds are impairing your cognitive ability

First misreading Steve so you thought him talking about himself taking
Depakote rather than as he wrote, a friend on Depakote, and secondly
misreading  Lawrence

 The problem is you are an

Quote:
> anti-psychiatry person who does not believe in mental illness.

No more anti-psychiatry than you, who has continously posted your opinion
psychiatry ought to be abolished, folded into neurology..

Unfortunately if psychiatry were abolished, only 5% of psychiatric
pattients, those with verifiable bio brain disease  would be treated by
neurologists!   The remaining 95%, the worried well, like you, with no
verifiable brain disorder would either have to undergo psychobabble, or get
your act together yourself.

 I  can tell you

Quote:
> that major depression, bipolar manic depression and schizophrenia are way
more
> than "emotional" problems. They are full blown serious diseases...brain
based
> illnesses.

Depression is no brain based illness, its totally an emotional illness
result of life experiences...  most bipolar disease is iatrogic, consequence
of treating the emotional illness of depression with brain damaging
neurotoxic antidepressants, especially the modern class of AD's.

schizophrenia is probably biological, result of overexposure to some germ,
or mold or mildew

Quote:
> Go away anti-psychiatry {*filter*}...

> Eric

> Steroids caused my depression...prednisone should be used conservatively

> http://www.***.com/

> MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation)
> http://www.***.com/



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:52:58 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE

Quote:

> Well,

> I've got a proposition to make.  Seems that Eric and Steve
> and Bob and everyone here are constantly embroiled in
> the controversy about depression and mental illness belonging
> to this or that branch of medicine - should it be Neurology,
> should it be Endocrinology, should it be Psychiatry, or
> Counselling or Cognitive Therapy, etc. Where does the
> treatment of mental illness belong?

> Well, may I suggest that the treatment of mental illness
> is a prescriptive affair?  Unlike other illnesses, mental
> illness is a biological brain state that causes great
> distress and even somatic illness of grave proportions?
> In which case it may be instructive to see how a "happy"
> or "relatively content" person's brain is, compare and
> see the difference.  And for the hardier souls try to
> imitate that chemically or physically.  Or is this what
> is currently being done?

squiggles:

the real true bottom line is, that before about 30 years ago, there was
NO treatment for mental illness. people having it were for the most part
expected to spend their entire lives institutionalised. there was no
cure. before the 50's, if you had severe mental illness, you were
spending your life institutionalised. that was just the way it was.

that is why, when these medicines were discovered some 30 years ago, and
people began being able to function and leave the hospitals by using
them, that it seemed so incredible that people thought they found the
'cure' to mental illness. of course these medicines still carry their
own problems and the science is in its infancy. but basically, before
these medicines, there simply was no real cure, or even treatment that
really showed to be efficacious against these harrowing symptoms. that
is why these medicines were hailed as such a revolution, but obviously
there is much research to still be done.

thats the bottom line.

there has never been a reliable 'cure' for any form of mental illness,
until these medicines, and this is the first agent ever seen to have a
noticeable effect. so, 'cure' and 'treatment' of mental illness is
really a pretty nonexistent thing before these medicines were
discovered. the fact that they allowed so many people to =leave the
hospitals= and function again, is what gave so many people such great
faith that they would be helpful.

i still share this faith, keeping a jaundiced eye toward the medical
companies, id rather have side effects than get a lobotomy and spend my
life in an institiution, any day of the week...... but thats just me......

peace
anna

Quote:

> Squiggles

--
------------------------------------------------------------->>

blackbird singin in the dead of night
take these broken eyes and learn to see
all your life
you were only waiting for this moment to be free ~

~~~~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~~~~~~~>

--------------------->>



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:08:30 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE



Quote:
>Yes, your meds are impairing your cognitive ability
>First misreading Steve so you thought him talking about himself

I've made those kind of mistakes.  Before I ever took meds.

Quote:

> most bipolar disease is iatrogic, consequence
>of treating the emotional illness of depression with brain damaging
>neurotoxic antidepressants, especially the modern class of AD's.

Stupid statement of the day.  I've never had an antidepressant.
Bipolar was around before AD's.  How can you say stupid things
when you don't take meds?

Quote:
>schizophrenia is probably biological, result of overexposure to some germ,

or mold or mildew.

How do you know that bipolar isn't the same? Or depression?

Go back to quoting articles.

Ralph V



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:14:22 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE


Quote:



> >Yes, your meds are impairing your cognitive ability

> >First misreading Steve so you thought him talking about himself

> I've made those kind of mistakes.  Before I ever took meds.

> > most bipolar disease is iatrogic, consequence
> >of treating the emotional illness of depression with brain damaging
> >neurotoxic antidepressants, especially the modern class of AD's.

> Stupid statement of the day.

Your disagreeing hardly makes a statement you disagree with stupid.

Quote:
> I've never had an antidepressant

Relevance?

Quote:
> Bipolar was around before AD's.

Duh, which is why the statement says MOST, rather than all Since the advent
of antidepressants, specifically the modern class, there now includes 6 dx's
of Bi polar disorder when before antidepressants there was ONE..

  How can you say stupid things

Quote:
> when you don't take meds?

Presumes your assumptions and/ or opinions are correct, where no evidences
exists such is the case.

Quote:
> >schizophrenia is probably biological, result of overexposure to some
germ,
> or mold or mildew.

> How do you know that bipolar isn't the same? Or depression?

IMO, Depression isn't, it is an emotional illness result of having a sucky
life, no voice..

IMO, most current cases of bipolar disorder the result of mistreatment of
depression with brain damaging toxic meds..

IMO, some cases of bipolar disorder are the result of other toxins to the
brain, such as germs, mold, mildews or unknown environmental toxins past the
{*filter*} brain barrier.

Quote:
> Go back to quoting articles.

And your mistaken belief you have  the authority to suggest any such thing
arises from where? Your being bipolar?
Quote:

> Ralph V



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:25:07 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE

Quote:






> > > > > << The point is that if psychiatrists want to treat bona-
> > > > > fide brain disease, they must do so as neurologists, internists,
> > > > > endocrinologists, surgeons, or as specialists in one of the other,
> > > > > the real, health care specialties - not as psychiatrists. Treatment
> > > > > of real brain disease falls within the scope of the other
> > > > > specialties.  Historically, treatment of real brain disease has not
> > > > > fallen within the scope of psychiatry.  It's time to stop the
> > > > > pretense that psychiatry is a type of health care.  The American
> > > > > Board of Psychiatry and Neurology should be renamed the American
> > > > > Board of Neurology, and there should be no more specialty
> > > > > certifications in psychiatry.  Organizations that formally
> > > > > represent physicians such as the American Medical Association and
> > > > > American Osteopathic Association and similar organizations in other
> > > > > countries should cease to recognize psychiatry as a bona-fide
> > > > > branch of the medical profession.

> > > > > THE AUTHOR, Lawrence Stevens, is a lawyer whose practice has
> > > > > included representing psychiatric "patients".  His pamphlets are
> > > > > not copyrighted.  Feel free to make copies.

> > > > > The above is very true. Mental illness is indeed a brain based illness,
> > > > this is
> > > > > what Ive been harping about forever and people are telling me Im crazy.
> > > > The
> > > > > diagnosis and treatment of mental illness should be the forte of Neurology
> > > > and
> > > > > not psychiatry. Psychiatrists actually know very little about
> > > > > brain/Neuroscience. And if mental illness is a brain disease as the
> > > > evidence is
> > > > > accumulating that it is, then it only follows that severe forms of mental
> > > > > illness be treated as Neuro diseases.

> > > > > Also keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies list their psychiatric
> > > > > {*filter*} under "central nervous system" and not under "psychiatry {*filter*}."
> > > > Ive
> > > > > long said that psychiatry should be totally abolished as a separate branch
> > > > of
> > > > > medicine and it should be formally absorbed into Neurology. This would be
> > > > one
> > > > > of the greatest things to happen to the field of mental illness EVER.
> > > > Maybe
> > > > > then we would begin seeing some real headway into the diagnosis and
> > > > treatment
> > > > > of severe mentalillness.

> > > > > Using psychology to diagnose and treat severe mental illness is a dead
> > > > end.
> > > > > Psychiatry is based in psychology. Psychiatry is a crockof shit. All
> > > > severe
> > > > > forms of mental illness should be treated as brain based diseases and that
> > > > will
> > > > > only happen when psychiatry is formally merged into Neurology.

> > > > > Mental illness is a neurological disease. Not a "psychological" problem.

> > > > > Eric

> > > > LOL  The meds you are taking are dulling your intelligence.

> > > > The author believes only about 5% of all psychiatric disorders are actual
> > > > brain diseases, necessitation medical treatment.

> > > > The author believes 95% of all so called psychiatric disorders are emotional
> > > > illnesses, necessitating reeducation in thinking and way of living!

> > > > The author would have the 5% with bonafide brain disease treated by
> > > > neurologists, and 95% of all psychiatric patients (worried well) treated by
> > > > therapists while psychiatry iyself beABOLISHED, so wouldnt have all these
> > > > people on {*filter*} for essentially "miseducation" of the mind..

> > > > ..

> > Thank you, say no for saving me that effort.  Since folks feel I am giving Eric a
> > hard time, I decided to let that post go and see if anyone else would chose to
> > respond.

> > > > > Steroids caused my depression...prednisone should be used conservatively

> > > > > http://www.***.com/

> > > > > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation)
> > > > > http://www.***.com/

> > > Well,

> > > I've got a proposition to make.  Seems that Eric and Steve
> > > and Bob and everyone here are constantly embroiled in
> > > the controversy about depression and mental illness belonging
> > > to this or that branch of medicine - should it be Neurology,
> > > should it be Endocrinology, should it be Psychiatry, or
> > > Counselling or Cognitive Therapy, etc. Where does the
> > > treatment of mental illness belong?

> > > Well, may I suggest that the treatment of mental illness
> > > is a prescriptive affair?  Unlike other illnesses, mental
> > > illness is a biological brain state that causes great
> > > distress and even somatic illness of grave proportions?
> > > In which case it may be instructive to see how a "happy"
> > > or "relatively content" person's brain is, compare and
> > > see the difference.  And for the hardier souls try to
> > > imitate that chemically or physically.  Or is this what
> > > is currently being done?

> > > Squiggles

> > At present there is no test that can show a difference between 'normal' peoples
> > brains and depressed or whatever peoples brains in terms of chemical make-up.
> > There is the beginning of a tiny glimmer in diagnostic imaging of the brain.  What
> > we may have, soon, is a way to indicate that person x is depressed, person y is
> > bi-polar, and person z is not diagnosed with any disease, even though the
> > psychiatrist wants to stick some convenient label on her.

> > Still, after we reach that point we still have the difficulty of how to treat the
> > individual, more correct diagnosis is part of the solution, more effective
> > treatment is the other 1/2.

> If this is the case Steve, and I would not be surprised since
> it's literally a global brain problem, then just converting
> Psychiatry to Neurology is like cutting off the greater percentage
> of feedback that you get from a talking person.  Not much
> of an advance for diagnosis, given the present limited knowledge
> of the brain.  So, Eric is dreaming - I always said this guy's
> a poet.

> Squiggles

I think people who act to prevent convulsions would not be too eager to induce them for
one change in the specialist who treats those labeled as mentally ill!


Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:59:49 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE

Quote:


> > Well,

> > I've got a proposition to make.  Seems that Eric and Steve
> > and Bob and everyone here are constantly embroiled in
> > the controversy about depression and mental illness belonging
> > to this or that branch of medicine - should it be Neurology,
> > should it be Endocrinology, should it be Psychiatry, or
> > Counselling or Cognitive Therapy, etc. Where does the
> > treatment of mental illness belong?

> > Well, may I suggest that the treatment of mental illness
> > is a prescriptive affair?  Unlike other illnesses, mental
> > illness is a biological brain state that causes great
> > distress and even somatic illness of grave proportions?
> > In which case it may be instructive to see how a "happy"
> > or "relatively content" person's brain is, compare and
> > see the difference.  And for the hardier souls try to
> > imitate that chemically or physically.  Or is this what
> > is currently being done?

> squiggles:

> the real true bottom line is, that before about 30 years ago, there was
> NO treatment for mental illness. people having it were for the most part
> expected to spend their entire lives institutionalised. there was no
> cure. before the 50's, if you had severe mental illness, you were
> spending your life institutionalised. that was just the way it was.

Gee ever hear of psychotherapy?

What about the failed experiments like ECT, as well as insulin shock,
metzarol, lobotomy and the other delights psychiatry has come up with?

Quote:

> that is why, when these medicines were discovered some 30 years ago, and
> people began being able to function and leave the hospitals by using
> them, that it seemed so incredible that people thought they found the
> 'cure' to mental illness. of course these medicines still carry their
> own problems and the science is in its infancy. but basically, before
> these medicines, there simply was no real cure,

You mean to state that you feel that there is a 'real cure' today?

Quote:
> or even treatment that
> really showed to be efficacious against these harrowing symptoms

The psychiatric establishment seemed to think ECT and lobotomy were
effective.  There was quite a lot of expert opinion that lobotomy was the best
thing since sliced bread, the guy who invented the ice pick lobotomy even won
the nobel prize in 1947.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> . that
> is why these medicines were hailed as such a revolution, but obviously
> there is much research to still be done.

> thats the bottom line.

> there has never been a reliable 'cure' for any form of mental illness,
> until these medicines, and this is the first agent ever seen to have a
> noticeable effect. so, 'cure' and 'treatment' of mental illness is
> really a pretty nonexistent thing before these medicines were
> discovered. the fact that they allowed so many people to =leave the
> hospitals= and function again, is what gave so many people such great
> faith that they would be helpful.

> i still share this faith, keeping a jaundiced eye toward the medical
> companies, id rather have side effects than get a lobotomy and spend my
> life in an institiution, any day of the week...... but thats just me......

Well 100% agree there.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> peace
> anna

> > Squiggles

> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------->>

> blackbird singin in the dead of night
> take these broken eyes and learn to see
> all your life
> you were only waiting for this moment to be free ~

> ~~~~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~~~~~~~>

> --------------------->>



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:15:35 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE

Quote:


> >there has never been a reliable 'cure' for any form of mental illness,
> >until these medicines, and this is the first agent ever seen to have a

> But 1/3 of people who have a schizophrenic episode recover completely
> and never need meds again.  But now how would we know this with
> everyone taking meds for life?

Wonderful point!


Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:26:47 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE



Quote:





> > >Yes, your meds are impairing your cognitive ability

> > >First misreading Steve so you thought him talking about himself

> > I've made those kind of mistakes.  Before I ever took meds.

> > > most bipolar disease is iatrogic, consequence
> > >of treating the emotional illness of depression with brain damaging
> > >neurotoxic antidepressants, especially the modern class of AD's.

> > Stupid statement of the day.

> Your disagreeing hardly makes a statement you disagree with stupid.

    OK then, how about some evidence, quotes from researchers.

Quote:
> > I've never had an antidepressant

> Relevance?

Duh, myself and a few bipolars didnt take antidepressants first.
And maybe some of the ones who did would have become bipolar anyway.

Quote:

> > Bipolar was around before AD's.

> Duh, which is why the statement says MOST, rather than all Since the
advent
> of antidepressants, specifically the modern class, there now includes 6
dx's
> of Bi polar disorder when before antidepressants there was ONE..

    I'll need a quote on that one.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>   How can you say stupid things
> > when you don't take meds?

> Presumes your assumptions and/ or opinions are correct, where no evidences
> exists such is the case.

> > >schizophrenia is probably biological, result of overexposure to some
> germ,
> > or mold or mildew.

> > How do you know that bipolar isn't the same? Or depression?

> IMO, Depression isn't, it is an emotional illness result of having a sucky
> life, no voice..

Have researchers found out that about depression, but not schizophrenia ?

Quote:

> IMO, most current cases of bipolar disorder the result of mistreatment of
> depression with brain damaging toxic meds..

> IMO, some cases of bipolar disorder are the result of other toxins to the
> brain, such as germs, mold, mildews or unknown environmental toxins past
the
> {*filter*} brain barrier.

   Maybe on that one.  Has anyone researched it?

Quote:

> > Go back to quoting articles.

> And your mistaken belief you have  the authority to suggest any such thing
> arises from where? Your being bipolar?

Bipolar doesn't give me authority, just the irritation to respond like that.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > Ralph V



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:46:19 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE


Quote:







> > > >Yes, your meds are impairing your cognitive ability

> > > >First misreading Steve so you thought him talking about himself

> > > I've made those kind of mistakes.  Before I ever took meds.

> > > > most bipolar disease is iatrogic, consequence
> > > >of treating the emotional illness of depression with brain damaging
> > > >neurotoxic antidepressants, especially the modern class of AD's.

> > > Stupid statement of the day.

> > Your disagreeing hardly makes a statement you disagree with stupid.

>     OK then, how about some evidence, quotes from researchers.

They have 30,000,000 people on anti-depressants on the basis of the
half-baked belief there exists a chemical imbalance causing depression, and
after 53 years of researching this belief have come up with absolutely no
evidence to support this belief!

Quote:

> > > I've never had an antidepressant

> > Relevance?
> Duh, myself and a few bipolars didnt take antidepressants first.
> And maybe some of the ones who did would have become bipolar anyway.

Duh, how bout brushing up your reading comprehension skills?

MOST  cases of bipolar disorder today are IMO the consequence of the
treating of emotional depression with psychotropic {*filter*} toxic to the
brain..while SOME cases are the result of the usual causes, IMO,
environmental toxins crossing the {*filter*} brain barrier, or antigens to those
toxins damaging brain..

Quote:

> > > Bipolar was around before AD's.

> > Duh, which is why the statement says MOST, rather than all Since the
> advent
> > of antidepressants, specifically the modern class, there now includes 6
> dx's
> > of Bi polar disorder when before antidepressants there was ONE..

>     I'll need a quote on that one.

Seek and Ye shall find.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> >   How can you say stupid things
> > > when you don't take meds?

> > Presumes your assumptions and/ or opinions are correct, where no
evidences
> > exists such is the case.

> > > >schizophrenia is probably biological, result of overexposure to some
> > germ,
> > > or mold or mildew.

> > > How do you know that bipolar isn't the same? Or depression?

> > IMO, Depression isn't, it is an emotional illness result of having a
sucky
> > life, no voice..

> Have researchers found out that about depression, but not schizophrenia ?

> > IMO, most current cases of bipolar disorder the result of mistreatment
of
> > depression with brain damaging toxic meds..

> > IMO, some cases of bipolar disorder are the result of other toxins to
the
> > brain, such as germs, mold, mildews or unknown environmental toxins past
> the
> > {*filter*} brain barrier.

>    Maybe on that one.  Has anyone researched it?

Sure they have, unfortunately research of that nature never been popular.

Consider what used to cause most mental illness and institutionalizations,
Pellagra, and neurosyphliss!

Quote:

> > And your mistaken belief you have  the authority to suggest any such
thing
> > arises from where? Your being bipolar?

> Bipolar doesn't give me authority, just the irritation to respond like
that.

Having Depression and finding the popular treatments, based upon faulty
beliefs,  are brain damaging and inciting bi-polar or psychosis, irritated
me some, too.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > > Ralph V



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:26:03 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE



Quote:
> They have 30,000,000 people on anti-depressants on the basis of the
> half-baked belief there exists a chemical imbalance causing depression,
and
> after 53 years of researching this belief have come up with absolutely no
> evidence to support this belief!

You have completely mis-stated the science. "They" (whoever they are) "have
30,000,000" (numbers really don't matter, do they?) "on antidepressants"
because placebo-controlled double-blind trials have shown that they are
likely to reduce the symptoms of depression. That needs no explanation. It
is pure observation. Observed fact is the only science; science means
knowledge. We know that when we treat depressed people with these
substances, they are likely to experience a greater reduction in symptoms
than those who were not so treated.

Why that happens is truly irrelevant, except to the extent that it can help
guide future research. Or, in your case, to further an agenda.

You haven't even got the theoretical concept correctly stated. It has only
been shown that neurochemical differences are correlated with symptoms of
depression. There is no evidence available to distinguish between three
possible inferences: a) the neurochemical differences cause depression; b)
the depression causes the neurochemical differences; c) they both are the
result of a separate undefined agent.



Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:28:51 GMT
 "No biological basis for the concept of mental or emotional ilness"-NONE


Quote:



> > They have 30,000,000 people on anti-depressants on the basis of the
> > half-baked belief there exists a chemical imbalance causing depression,
> and
> > after 53 years of researching this belief have come up with absolutely
no
> > evidence to support this belief!

> You have completely mis-stated the science. "They" (whoever they are)
"have
> 30,000,000" (numbers really don't matter, do they?) "on antidepressants"
> because placebo-controlled double-blind trials have shown that they are
> likely to reduce the symptoms of depression.

 That needs no explanation. It

Quote:
> is pure observation. Observed fact is the only science; science means
> knowledge. We know that when we treat depressed people with these
> substances, they are likely to experience a greater reduction in symptoms
> than those who were not so treated.

> Why that happens is truly irrelevant, except to the extent that it can
help
> guide future research. Or, in your case, to further an agenda.

> You haven't even got the theoretical concept correctly stated. It has only
> been shown that neurochemical differences are correlated with symptoms of
> depression. There is no evidence available to distinguish between three
> possible inferences: a) the neurochemical differences cause depression; b)
> the depression causes the neurochemical differences; c) they both are the
> result of a separate undefined agent.

Nothing you have said takes issue with the point of the article which is
THERE EXISTS NO BIOLOGICAL BASIS FOR DEPRESSION TO BE TREATED WITH TOXIC,
BRAIN DAMAGING, MIND  OBLITERATING, MANIA & PSYCHOSIS INDUCING
ANTIDEPRESSANTS AS 30,000,000 PEOPLE ARE OR HAVE BEEN..


Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:11:54 GMT
 
 [ 34 post ]  Go to page: [1] [2] [3]

 Relevant Pages 

1. Origin of "Wormhole" concept in physics

2. Medical Definition Needed: "Named-Patient Basis"

3. E-mail address of "Biological Psychiatry"

4. Symposium: "Biological Therapy of Cancer"

5. Biological Warfare: Chinese, OR "Insectoids"? :)

6. "US Biological Testing Involving Human Subjects"- Records SCANNED from the 95th Congress

7. Garlic: A "Biological Response Modifier"

8. A Response From a "1000 Parent of Light"//Mental-Health Rip-Offs Explained

9. A Response From a "1000 Parent of Light"/Mental-Health Rip-Offs Explained

10. A Response From a "1000 Parent of Light"//Mental-Health Rip-Offs Explaine

11. Cancel is mental illness claims "Steph"


 
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software