New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m 
Author Message
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb. http://www.***.com/
 of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

-------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------



Fri, 05 May 2006 01:46:28 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m


Quote:
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.

http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction...
Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition

Quote:
>  of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

> -------------- ??3Y ?????o?? KORNET -------------

do I understand correctly?: LC=40% of calories? duh!

Wuz, is your reporting balanced?  (;-})      (You are more prejudiced than
TC!)

"......On the other hand, IR women randomized to the LC/HF diet lost
significantly more weight than those randomized to the HC/LF diet"
Obese SI women lose more weight on a hypocaloric diet that is low in fat
content, while a hypocaloric diet that is low in carbohydrate and higher in
fat content appears to be more effective in obese IR women."

MikeV

 ....."Controversy exists as to whether the macronutrient composition of a
hypocaloric diet can enhance its effectiveness. It is also unclear whether
an individual[rsquo]s insulin sensitivity determines their response to a
diet. We examined the effect of energy-matched hypocaloric diets (400 kcal/d
deficit) composed of either high carbohydrate, low fat (HC/LF) or low
carbohydrate, high fat (LC/HF) on weight loss and insulin sensitivity (Si)
in obese women (n=24). Obese insulin sensitive (IS: fasting insulin
<10[mu]U/ml) and obese insulin resistant (IR: fasting insulin >15[mu]U/ml)
women were randomized to either a HC/LF (60% C, 20% F, 20% P) or LC/HF (40%
C, 40% F, 20% P) hypocaloric diet for 16 weeks. All cooking.net">food was provided to the
subjects. Body weight, body composition, fasting lipids, resting metabolic
rate (RMR), and Si were measured at baseline and again at the end of the
dietary intervention. Subjects lost at least the expected amount of weight
([ge]5.8 kg). IS women randomized to the HC/LF diet lost a significantly
greater amount of weight than those randomized to the LC/HF diet (11.470.80
kg vs. 6.121.13 kg, p<0.01). On the other hand, IR women randomized to the
LC/HF diet lost significantly more weight than those randomized to the HC/LF
diet (11.461.23 kg vs. 6.120.85 kg, p<0.05). RMR did not change
significantly in any of the groups. Si trended to improve in the IR groups
(HC/LF: 2.22 0.60% to 3.32 1.04%; LC/HF: 1.490.54% to 3.560.66%;
p=0.096) but remained unchanged in the IS groups. Overall, changes in Si
correlated with the degree of weight loss (r=0.71, p<0.05). There were no
significant changes in cholesterol. Triglycerides decreased significantly in
all groups except the IR women on the HC/LF diet. These findings demonstrate
that baseline insulin sensitivity in obese women predicts the effectiveness
to hypocaloric diets of varying macronutrient compositions. Obese SI women
lose more weight on a hypocaloric diet that is low in fat content, while a
hypocaloric diet that is low in carbohydrate and higher in fat content
appears to be more effective in obese IR women.



Fri, 05 May 2006 02:54:57 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m
This is just an abstract (meaning it has not been peer-reviewed).

The studies that have been done have had different results. The answer of
whether low-carb or low-fat is better is not an easy one.

However, there is an easy answer: Low-cal is the key. If you take in fewer
calories than you burn, you will lose weight.

Jeff



Fri, 05 May 2006 06:05:17 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m
Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff
   rambled on about "Re: New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat
over 4 m."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quote:
>If you take in fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight.

????

Who the heck wants to lose weight?

Oh you mean, ... Losers?

Ha, ... Hah, Ha! Pun intended



Fri, 05 May 2006 07:21:17 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

Quote:

> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction... Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition
>  of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

> -------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------

The Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight
Loss in Obese Women Is Dependent on Their Baseline Insulin Sensitivity

Abstract Information
Presented during:  Emerging Research in Clinical Nutrition  -
06/17/2003 (08:00 - 10:00 AM)
Abstract Number:  313-OR
Authors:  MARC-ANDRE CORNIER, WILLIAM T. DONAHOO, JAMES O. HILL,
ROBERT H. ECKEL, BORIS DRAZNIN
Institution:  Denver, CO

About Dr. Eckel.....

"Robert H. Eckel, M.D., Division of Endocrinology, Health Sciences
Center, University of Colorado. Research on the "effect of medium
chain triglycerides on glucose and lipid metabolism in type II
diabetes melitus" was supported by Procter and Gamble. Research on
"the effect of leptin on postprandial lipid metabolism" was supported
by Amgen. (Undated resume on file at CSPI; accessed 6/18/02)"

I notice that there is no declaration as to who paid for this
particular piece of research.

And isn't it interesting how whenever a study slams the low-carb diet,
there always seems to be pharma sponsorship involved somewhere in the
researchers past, oresent or future. Invariably. Always. Never fails.

Check out these two abstracts: 309-OR and 312-OR.

Check and mate. Nice try wuzzy.

TC



Sat, 06 May 2006 00:39:32 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

Quote:

> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction... Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition
>  of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

> -------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------

More on Dr. Robert H. Eckel:

http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/eckel-r.html

What a character.

TC



Sat, 06 May 2006 00:51:14 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m


Quote:


>>look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.

> http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction...
> Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition

>> of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

>>-------------- ??3Y ?????o?? KORNET -------------

> do I understand correctly?: LC=40% of calories? duh!

I thought that low carb said you could loose weight without counting
calories?

--
jmk in NC



Sat, 06 May 2006 00:57:43 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

Quote:

> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction... Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition
>  of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

> -------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------

Regarding Dr. Eckel, the author of this "study".

Dr Eckel the creationist:

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-346.htm

"Eckel is the chair of the American Heart Association committee on nutrition..."

Corporate sponsors of the American Heart Association.

********************************************************PARTNERS
Partners recognizes corporations and foundations for lifetime
giving of $1,000,000 and above
Archer Daniels Midland Company Illinois
AstraZeneca LP Pennsylvania
Aventis Pharmaceuticals Pennsylvania
Averitt Express Associate Charities Tennessee
Bayer Corporation New Jersey
Bristol-Myers Squibb Company New Jersey
The Henrietta B. and Frederick H. Bugher Foundation New York
Citi Delaware
GlaxoSmithKline Pennsylvania
Guidant Corporation Indiana
Guidant Foundation Indiana
Harriet and Robert Heilbrunn New York
The J. Willard and Alice S. Marriott Foundation District of
Columbia
Carlos and Marguerite Mason Trust Georgia
Medicine Shoppe International, Inc. Missouri
Mercedes-Benz, USA, LLC New Jersey
Merck & Co., Inc. Pennsylvania
Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corp. New Jersey
Omron Healthcare, Inc. Illinois
Pfizer, Inc. New York
Procter & Gamble Company Ohio
Random House, Inc. New York
Sanofi-Synthelabo New York
Schering-Plough Corporation New Jersey
Subway Connecticut
Takeda Pharmaceuticals Illinois
United Way of Southeastern PA Pennsylvania
Walgreen Co. Illinois
The Harry and Jeanette Weinberg
Foundation Hawaii
Wyeth-Ayerst Pharmaceuticals Pennsylvania
*******************************************

Chew on that a while.

TC



Sat, 06 May 2006 01:01:54 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

Quote:

> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb. http://www.***.com/
>  of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

> -------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------

Even more damning info about Dr Eckel.

Dr Eckel is on the Keystone Symposia advisory board:

http://www.***.com/

Here are the symposias sponsors:

http://www.***.com/

The infamous DB Allison, the master {*filter*} of the pharmaceutical
industry used Dr Eckel as a personal reference on his CV. Check the
reference section near the bottom of this page.

http://www.***.com/

also from his CV:

PAST GRANTS

Allison, D. B. (principal investigator), Eckel, R., Pi-Sunyer, F. X.,
Fisler, J., & Ravussin, E. Advancing the Genetics of Obesity:
Strategies & Methods. An R13 (conference grant) funded by the National
Institute of Diabetes, Digestive and Kidney Diseases and the Office of
Research on Women's Health and supported by numerous industrial
sponsors. Total Amount: $110,000. Conference held July, 1997.

TC



Sat, 06 May 2006 01:50:08 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m


Quote:

> writes:

>>I thought that low carb said you could lose weight without counting
>>calories?

> Where does  "low carb" say that?  Who, exactly, is this "low carb" you're
> quoting?

I am very sorry that I was unclear.  People on low carb generally state
that they do not count calories, they count carbohydrates.  People who
use a calorie counting regime as a weight loss plan do count calories.
Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the calorie counting group
counted calories (and in this case with a deficit of 400 KCal per day
which would be less than one pound per week of weight loss) and the low
carbohydrate group counted carbohydrates.  In fact, Atkins own website
states:  "The Atkins Nutritional Approach(TM) counts grams of
carbohydrates instead of calories."
--
jmk in NC


Sat, 06 May 2006 01:50:35 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m
note atkins diet at one year goes back up to 2000kcal from the 1000kcal at induction - induction is the lowest kcal diet of ALL diets i know, including ornish, ww and pp.++In fact i can't think of any other diet that recommends such a low kcal. However maintenance is probably the highest kcal diet I know of.++Thus the importance of at least 1 year..++3 1 yr studies so far it was only slightly better than the normal (30%) low-kcal diet, but this was not statistically significant meaning the two groups overlapped.

-------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------



Sat, 06 May 2006 01:27:24 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m
Who had the original idea that you didn't have to count calories, was it atkins or ornish, bot say similar things: "eat as much as you want"..++Ornish won out at one year so atkins may only work short term or may still work long term but not as good as ornish..

-------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------



Sat, 06 May 2006 02:15:41 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m
Once upon a time, our fellow Susan 'the Fiend'
   rambled on about "Re: New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat
over 4 m."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quote:
>Ornish doesn't work in the real world as an eating plan, and it made me
>severely IR and HI.

Did why did you follow his diet, or don't you know how to read?

Just thought that you might want to know. :)



Sat, 06 May 2006 03:09:22 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

Quote:

> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb. http://www.***.com/
>  of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women

> -------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------

A bit on DB Allison from his CV:

INDUSTRY
Consultant to Millenium Pharmaceuticals Incorporated on issues related
to the genetic influences on obesity.
Consultant to AMGEN on issues related to the clinical study of leptin
as an anti-obesity therapeutic, 1999.
Consultant to Regeneron Pharmaceuticals on issues related to the
treatment of human obesity, 1999.
Consultant to Wilentz, Goldman, & Spitzer, Attorneys at Law regarding
OTC weight-loss product claims litigation, 1999.
Consultant to McKenna & Cuneo, L.L.P., Attorneys at Law regarding
anti-obesity drug litigation, 1998 to present.
Consultant to Fisons Corporation & Mediva Pharmaceuticals regarding
anti-obesity drug litigation, 1998.
Consultant to Spadoro & Hilson, Attorneys at Law regarding actuarial
lifetable estimation for obese decedents, 1998.
Consultant to Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals on weight gain with
neuroleptic medication, 1997-Present.
Consultant to Pfizer Central Research, Inc. on obesity related issues,
1997-Present.
Consultant to Proctor & Gamble regarding olestra (Olean); 1998.
Consultant to Decision Resources on the pharmacological treatment of
obesity, October, 1999.
Member of "Panel of Evaluators" for Current {*filter*} Ltd, a company that
provides expert information on {*filter*} under research and development,
1998.
Consultant to Research Testing Laboratories, Inc. regarding clinical
trial of weight loss preparation for Slim America, 1996.
Member of the Nutritional Advisory Board for Nabisco, Inc., 1994 -
Present.
Member of the United Soybean Panel's Nutrition Advisory Board, 1996 -
Present.
Member of the Wheat Council's panel of experts, 1998 - Present.
Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the
pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996.
Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the treatment
of obesity - April, 1997.
Consultant to Corning HTA (for a project sponsored by Wyeth Ayerst)
regarding the economic benefits of obesity treatment, 1996-1997.
Consultant to the journal Patient Care on an article regarding the
pharmacological treatment of obesity, 1997.
Consulted with Glaxo Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the
pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996.

*********************

What would these companies do if everyone went on a low-carb diet and
didn't need to use their snake-oil treatments?

TC



Sat, 06 May 2006 04:34:49 GMT
 New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m
Once upon a time, our fellow Susan
   rambled on about "Re: New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat
over 4 m."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quote:
>>Did why did you follow his diet, or don't you know how to read?

>Waaaay better than you know how to write, numbnuts.

Then you obviously knew what you were getting into before you started
the 10% or 20% VERY Low-Fat diet of Ornish.

Or don't you know how to read, Ms. Fiend?



Sat, 06 May 2006 04:50:22 GMT
 
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