Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
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ironjust.. #1 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Soy protein diet improves endothelial dysfunction in renal transplant patients. Cupisti A, Ghiadoni L, D'Alessandro C, Kardasz I, Morelli E, Panichi V, Locati D, Morandi S, Saba A, Barsotti G, Taddei S, Arnoldi A, Salvetti A Nephrol Dial Transplant. 2006 Sep 23; BACKGROUND: Since it has been demonstrated that soy diet can improve endothelial function, in the present study we evaluated the effect of dietary substitution of 25 g of animal proteins with soy proteins on endothelial dysfunction in renal transplant patients. METHODS: In 20 renal transplant patients (55 +/- 11 years, serum creatinine 1.7 +/- 0.6 mg/dl), brachial artery flow mediated dilation (FMD) and endothelium-independent vasodilation (sublingual nitroglycerine, 25 microg) were measured at baseline, after 5 weeks of a soy diet and finally after 5 weeks of soy wash-out. Changes in plasma lipids, markers of oxidative stress (lipid peroxides, LOOH) and inflammation (C-reactive protein), isoflavones (genistein and daidzein), asymmetric dimethyl arginine (ADMA) and l-arginine were also evaluated. RESULTS: At baseline, patients showed a significantly lower FMD as compared with age-matched healthy subjects (3.2 +/- 1.8 vs 6.3 +/- 1.9, respectively; P < 0.001), while response to nitroglycerine was similar. After soy diet, actual protein intake was not changed, cholesterol and lipid peroxides were significantly reduced, and isoflavones were detectable in plasma. Soy diet was associated with a significant improvement in FMD (4.4 +/- 2.0; P = 0.003 vs baseline), while response to nitroglycerine was unchanged. Improvement in FMD was related to l-arginine/ADMA ratio changes, but no significant relation was found to changes in cholesterol, lipid peroxides or genistein and daidzein plasma concentrations. After 5 weeks of soy diet discontinuation, FMD (3.3 +/- 1.7%) returned to baseline values and isoflavones were no longer detectable in plasma. CONCLUSIONS: A soy protein diet for 5 weeks improves endothelial function in renal transplant patients. This effect seems to be strictly dependent on soy intake as it disappears after soy withdrawal and is mediated by an increase in the l-arginine/ADMA ratio, independently of change in lipid profile, oxidative stress or isoflavones. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://www.***.com/ Man Is A Herbivore! http://www.***.com/ DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://www.***.com/
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Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:04:41 GMT |
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Matti Narki #2 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
>Soy protein diet improves endothelial dysfunction in renal transplant >patients. >Cupisti A, Ghiadoni L, D'Alessandro C, Kardasz I, Morelli E, Panichi V, >Locati D, Morandi S, Saba A, Barsotti G, Taddei S, Arnoldi A, Salvetti >A >Nephrol Dial Transplant. 2006 Sep 23;
And animal studies suggest that _fish_ protein may prevent insulin resistance and thus type 2 diabetes. And a Swedish study with humans suggests that fish protein may protect type 1 diabetes patients from microalbuminuria und thus perhaps from kidney damage. Here some evidence: The study Lavigne C, Tremblay F, Asselin G, Jacques H, Marette A. Prevention of skeletal muscle insulin resistance by dietary cod protein in high fat-fed rats. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Jul;281(1):E62-71. PMID: 11404223 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/1/E62> suggests that fish protein may prevent high fat diet induced insulin resistance and hence type 2 diabetes in rats. Selected excerpts: "In the present study, we tested the hypothesis that fish protein may represent a key constituent of fish with glucoregulatory activity. Three groups of rats were fed a high- fat diet in which the protein source was casein, fish (cod) protein, or soy protein; these groups were compared with a group of chow-fed controls. High-fat feeding led to severe whole body and skeletal muscle insulin resistance in casein- or soy protein-fed rats, as assessed by the euglycemic clamp technique coupled with measurements of 2-deoxy-D-[(3)H]glucose uptake rates by individual tissues. However, feeding cod protein fully prevented the development of insulin resistance in high fat-fed rats. These animals exhibited higher rates of insulin-mediated muscle glucose disposal that were comparable to those of chow-fed rats. The beneficial effects of cod protein occurred without any reductions in body weight gain, adipose tissue accretion, or expression of tumor necrosis factor-alpha in fat and muscle. Moreover, L6 myocytes exposed to cod protein-derived amino acids showed greater rates of insulin-stimulated glucose uptake compared with cells incubated with casein- or soy protein-derived amino acids. These data demonstrate that feeding cod protein prevents obesity-induced muscle insulin resistance in high fat-fed obese rats at least in part through a direct action of amino acids on insulin- stimulated glucose uptake in skeletal muscle cells. [...] In summary, the present study shows that dietary cod protein prevents the development of skeletal muscle insulin resistance in high fat-fed obese rats. The beneficial action of cod protein on insulin sensitivity occurred without reductions in body weight or adiposity, strongly suggesting that cod protein protects from obesity-induced insulin resistance. The effect of dietary cod protein appears to involve, at least in part, a direct action of cod protein-derived amino acids on insulin- stimulated glucose transport in skeletal muscle cells. Interest in the present data also arises from the fact that increased cod protein consumption is easily implementable in humans within guidelines of daily recommended allowances of essential nutrients (12, 18) and thus could represent a novel nutraceutical approach in preventing the development of insulin resistance in obesity. Because insulin resistance is a central factor in visceral obesity-associated complications such as hypertension, diabetes, and cardiovascular diseases (2, 6, 8), dietary cod protein may contribute to prevent the many metabolic aberrations that accompany the obese state." A follow-up study from the same research team: Tremblay F, Lavigne C, Jacques H, Marette A. Dietary cod protein restores insulin-induced activation of phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase/Akt and GLUT4 translocation to the T-tubules in skeletal muscle of high-fat-fed obese rats. Diabetes. 2003 Jan;52(1):29-37. PMID: 12502490 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/52/1/29> "Diet-induced obesity is known to cause peripheral insulin resistance in rodents. We have recently found that feeding cod protein to high-fat-fed rats prevents the development of insulin resistance in skeletal muscle. In the present study, we have further explored the cellular mechanisms behind this beneficial effect of cod protein on skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity. Rats were fed a standard chow diet or a high-fat diet in which the protein source was either casein, soy, or cod proteins for 4 weeks. Whole-body and muscle glucose disposal were reduced by approximately 50% in rats fed high-fat diets with casein or soy proteins, but these impairments were not observed in animals fed cod protein. Insulin-induced tyrosine phosphorylation of the insulin receptor and insulin receptor substrate (IRS) proteins were similar in muscle of chow- and high-fat-fed rats regardless of the dietary protein source. However, IRS-1-associated phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase activity was severely impaired (-60%) in muscle of high-fat-fed rats consuming casein or soy protein. In marked contrast, feeding rats with cod protein completely prevented the deleterious effect of fat feeding on insulin-stimulated PI 3- kinase activity. The activation of the downstream kinase Akt/PKB by insulin, assessed by in vitro kinase assay and phosphorylation of GSK-3beta, were also impaired in muscle of high-fat-fed rats consuming casein or soy protein, but these defects were also fully prevented by dietary cod protein. However, no effect of cod protein was observed on atypical protein kinase C activity. Normalization of PI 3-kinase/Akt activation by insulin in rats fed high-fat diets with cod protein was associated with improved translocation of GLUT4 to the T-tubules but not to the plasma membrane. Taken together, these results show that dietary cod protein is a natural insulin-sensitizing agent that appears to prevent obesity- linked muscle insulin resistance by normalizing insulin activation of the PI 3-kinase/Akt pathway and by selectively improving GLUT4 translocation to the T-tubules. [...] In summary, this study provides convincing evidence that dietary proteins are important modulators of insulin signaling and action in rat skeletal muscle. Furthermore, we showed that dietary cod protein is a potent and natural insulin-sensitizing agent that normalizes the activation status of the PI 3- kinase/Akt pathway coupled to an increased translocation of GLUT4 to the T-tubules in obese high-fat-fed rats. Identification of the precise molecular mechanism by which dietary cod protein improves insulin signaling to PI 3- kinase/Akt will help defining novel therapeutic tools for the prevention and treatment of insulin resistance." Another potential benefit from fish protein: A Swedish study Mollsten AV, Dahlquist GG, Stattin EL, Rudberg S. Higher intakes of fish protein are related to a lower risk of microalbuminuria in young Swedish type 1 diabetic patients. Diabetes Care. 2001 May;24(5):805-10. PMID: 11347734 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/24/5/805> found that fish protein may protect from microalbuminuria in type 1 diabetes. Brief excerpts: "... CONCLUSIONS: Total protein and fat intake were not associated with the presence of microalbuminuria, but a diet including a high amount of fish protein seemed to lessen the risk. [...] In conclusion, our results do not give evidence for the suggestion that a high-protein diet increases the risk for incipient diabetic nephropathy. Rather, a diet rich in fish protein seems to provide protection from this complication." Quote: >Who loves ya. >Tom >Jesus Was A Vegetarian! >http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
No, Jesus was a fish eater. Quote: >Man Is A Herbivore! >http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
No, before the invention of agriculture some 10000-15000 years ago our hunter-gatherer ancestors evolved on and adapted to a high protein, low carbohydrate diet, where carbohydrates provided 22-40% of calories, and where animal meat was an important part of diet. -- Matti Narkia
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Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:26:10 GMT |
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crv.. #3 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
> > Quote: > No, before the invention of agriculture some 10000-15000 years ago our > hunter-gatherer ancestors evolved on and adapted to a high protein, > low carbohydrate diet, where carbohydrates provided 22-40% of > calories, and where animal meat was an important part of diet. > -- > Matti Narkia
But our hunter-gatherer ancestors didn't live to see the ripe old age of 30, in most cases. It can be argued that we were gathers long before we were hunters. But only in recent history have people begun dying from eating TOO MUCH food, regardless of whether it's meat or not. We've evolved enough to see what's killing us but haven't evolved enough to stop doing it.
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:02:09 GMT |
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Matti Narki #4 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote: >> No, before the invention of agriculture some 10000-15000 years ago our >> hunter-gatherer ancestors evolved on and adapted to a high protein, >> low carbohydrate diet, where carbohydrates provided 22-40% of >> calories, and where animal meat was an important part of diet. >But our hunter-gatherer ancestors didn't live to see the ripe old age >of 30, in most cases.
Even if that were true, it's irrelevant. The issue was what kind of diet we have adapted to and at least for the last two million years excluding the last 10000-15000 years of agriculture era that has been a high protein, low carb diet containg large amount of meat. As for the life expectation of our ancestora: not only were they missing all medical care of modern times, but besides being hunters, they were also hunted, and when they became too old to catch prey, they probably died of hunger or became hunted down. Quote: >It can be argued that we were gathers long >before we were hunters.
Some of our ancestor were vegetarian gatherers, but during the last two million years of evolution, humans were primarily carnivorous, i.e., flesh-eating hunters consuming a low-carbohydrate, high-protein diet. References: Perspectives on Nutrition in Related Species Man's Ancestry and Diet Nutrition by Ron Kennedy, M.D., Santa Rosa, California <http://www.medical-library.net/sites/_nutrition.html>: Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet <http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html>: Hominid Species Timeline <http://www.wsu.edu/gened/learn-modules/top_longfor/timeline/timeline....> Cordain L, Eaton SB, Sebastian A, Mann N, Lindeberg S, Watkins BA, O'Keefe JH, Brand-Miller J. Origins and evolution of the Western diet: health implications for the 21st century. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Feb;81(2):341-54. Review. PMID: 15699220 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/2/341> Mann NJ. Paleolithic nutrition: what can we learn from the past? Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2004;13(Suppl):S17. PMID: 15294479 [PubMed - in process] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&...> Cordain L, Eaton SB, Miller JB, Mann N, Hill K. The paradoxical nature of hunter-gatherer diets: meat-based, yet non-atherogenic. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Mar;56 Suppl 1:S42-52. Review. PMID: 11965522 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&...> Cordain L, Miller JB, Eaton SB, Mann N, Holt SH, Speth JD. Plant-animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations in worldwide hunter-gatherer diets. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Mar;71(3):682-92. PMID: 10702160 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/3/682> Miller JC, Colagiuri S. The carnivore connection: dietary carbohydrate in the evolution of NIDDM. Diabetologia. 1994 Dec;37(12):1280-6. PMID: 7895958 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&...> Colagiuri S, Brand Miller JC. The metabolic syndrome: from inherited survival trait to a health care problem. Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes. 1997;105 Suppl 2:54-60. Review. PMID: 9288547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&...> Colagiuri S, Brand Miller J. The 'carnivore connection'--evolutionary aspects of insulin resistance. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Mar;56 Suppl 1:S30-5. Review. PMID: 11965520 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&...> Quote: >But only in recent history have people begun >dying from eating TOO MUCH food, regardless of whether it's meat or >not. We've evolved enough to see what's killing us but haven't >evolved enough to stop doing it.
On that I agree with you. As for meat, current meat of domesticated farm raised grain-fed animals is very different from the meat of wild stone age animals. Todays's meat is probably not healthy, at least not in large amounts. I don't eat meat, but I eat plenty of fish. -- Matti Narkia
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:52:38 GMT |
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Verno #5 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote: >> No, before the invention of agriculture some 10000-15000 years ago our >> hunter-gatherer ancestors evolved on and adapted to a high protein, >> low carbohydrate diet, where carbohydrates provided 22-40% of >> calories, and where animal meat was an important part of diet. >> -- >> Matti Narkia > But our hunter-gatherer ancestors didn't live to see the ripe old age > of 30, in most cases. It can be argued that we were gathers long > before we were hunters. But only in recent history have people begun > dying from eating TOO MUCH food, regardless of whether it's meat or > not. We've evolved enough to see what's killing us but haven't > evolved enough to stop doing it.
Age is always stated as "average" Some lived to a very old age, possibly 100. Disease was not understood and most died from the environment or were killed. Some were eaten. Wars and tribal genocides were the norm. It is pretty difficult to be a gatherer and not a hunter. That is a fairy tale made by people who have probably never walked in the woods or forest, much less tried to survive. Fish has been key in human survival. Guess what, Humans, bears, pigs are more alike than any other digestive and nutrient system.
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:55:33 GMT |
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TC #6 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
> > No, before the invention of agriculture some 10000-15000 years ago our > > hunter-gatherer ancestors evolved on and adapted to a high protein, > > low carbohydrate diet, where carbohydrates provided 22-40% of > > calories, and where animal meat was an important part of diet. > > -- > > Matti Narkia > But our hunter-gatherer ancestors didn't live to see the ripe old age > of 30, in most cases. It can be argued that we were gathers long > before we were hunters. But only in recent history have people begun > dying from eating TOO MUCH food, regardless of whether it's meat or > not. We've evolved enough to see what's killing us but haven't > evolved enough to stop doing it.
What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. TC
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:55:58 GMT |
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NoOptio.. #7 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
> What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It > isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much > grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable > oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable > oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly > processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons.
That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense? Patrick
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 07:52:16 GMT |
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George Cherr #8 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
>> What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It >> isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much >> grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable >> oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable >> oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly >> processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. > That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade > diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, > and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant > part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely > exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger > King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] > chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge > disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse > refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with > healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as > mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense?
He can't. He's crazy.
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:45:23 GMT |
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TC #9 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
> > What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It > > isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much > > grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable > > oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable > > oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly > > processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. > That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade > diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, > and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant > part of the problem,
One the one hand it is a "fallacy" and on the other hand it is a "significant part of the problem" ????? Which one is it? Is it a "fallacy" or is it a "significant part of the problem"? Make up your mind. Quote: > to make no mention of, or worse completely > exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish,
with a large order of chips and a large soda Quote: > greasy [Big Mac/Burger
with a super sized fry and a 3/4 gallon jug of sugar water Quote: > King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers,
and a fries and drink Quote: > slimey [Kentucky Fried] > chicken,
and a fries and drink Quote: > and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge > disservice to this NG.
on a one-inch thick white flour crust and with a large soda Quote: > And your continuous attempt to link and confuse > refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with > healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as > mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense? > Patrick
"nutritious" whole grain is only refined white grain flour with the left overs mixed back in. It is still over processed stale grain with all kinds of added chemicals to preserve it and stop it from clumping. You've been had by the grain industry. And there is nothing magical in grains that cannot be gotten in greater amounts and in better forms from real fresh whole produce. Grains are entirely superfluous to the human diet. Name me one vegetable oil that is not refined. Except for extra {*filter*} olive oil. Name me one that isn't heated, treated, filtered and processed to death. Do you know what they do to corn oil, canola oil, soy oil and other vegetable oils before it is poured in a bottle and shipped to your grocer? You would be surprised how heavily processed it actually is. It is rendered as dead a cooking.net">food as refined white flour and ultra high temp pasteurized milk. These foods are processed to death and it does not matter how fancy, glossy and green the label is, it is still a dead food. There is nothing mischievous about the {*filter*}that is foisted upon us as supposedly healthy foods. TC
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:21:54 GMT |
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TC #10 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
> > What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It > > isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much > > grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable > > oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable > > oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly > > processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. > That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade > diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, > and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant > part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely > exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger > King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] > chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge > disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse > refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with > healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as > mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense? > Patrick
Some info on vegetable oil processing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_oil http://waltonfeed.com/omega/wht-oil.html http://www.cip.ukcentre.com/marg1.htm TC
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:06:07 GMT |
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George Cherr #11 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
> > What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It > > isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much > > grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable > > oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable > > oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly > > processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. > That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade > diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, > and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant > part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely > exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger > King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] > chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge > disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse > refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with > healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as > mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense?
He can't. He's possessed by a single idea.
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:44:01 GMT |
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TC #12 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
> > > What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It > > > isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much > > > grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable > > > oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable > > > oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly > > > processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. > > That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade > > diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, > > and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant > > part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely > > exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger > > King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] > > chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge > > disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse > > refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with > > healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as > > mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense? > He can't. He's possessed by a single idea.
As are you, doncha know. TC
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Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:52:37 GMT |
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Verno #13 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
>> What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It >> isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much >> grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable >> oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable >> oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly >> processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. > That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade > diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, > and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant > part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely > exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger > King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] > chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge > disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse > refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with > healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as > mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense? > Patrick
1. Keep calories from carbohydrates under 40% of the diet no matter whether so called simple or complex. 2. Avoid hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils of any kind Meat NEVER hurt any normal person. Protein, oils, and fiber are a requirement. It takes a lot of vegetables and fruits to get sufficient fiber. They also contain carbohydrates. That doesn't leave much room for too much meat and very little room for much grains and practically NO room for soda pop or candy. BTW a Big Mac with onions, lettuce, tomatoes, cheese (no fries), (no pop of ANY kind) is one of the healthier dinners around. It's all relative.
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Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:02:23 GMT |
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TC #14 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
> >> What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It > >> isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much > >> grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable > >> oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable > >> oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly > >> processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. > > That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade > > diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, > > and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant > > part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely > > exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger > > King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] > > chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge > > disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse > > refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with > > healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as > > mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense? > > Patrick > 1. Keep calories from carbohydrates under 40% of the diet no matter whether > so called simple or complex. > 2. Avoid hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils of any kind > Meat NEVER hurt any normal person. > Protein, oils, and fiber are a requirement. > It takes a lot of vegetables and fruits to get sufficient fiber. They also > contain carbohydrates. That doesn't leave much room for too much meat and > very little room for much grains and practically NO room for soda pop or > candy. > BTW a Big Mac with onions, lettuce, tomatoes, cheese (no fries), (no pop of > ANY kind) is one of the healthier dinners around. It's all relative.
I tend to agree with you, except it seems that you are using the terms "simple carbs" and "complex carbs" in the wrong context. Simple carbs are sugars which have simple singular molecular structures. Complex carbs are starches which have complex chains of molecules connected together. They are both refined high-GI carbs and they both have similar effects to the human body, ie. obesity, diabetes, etc. I think you meant to suggest that carbs be kept to less than 40% whether they are refined high-GI carbs or real fresh whole-food carbs. I agree with the less than 40% carb consumption overall, but refined carbs (sugars and starches) are slow poisons that provide no useful nutrition and cause short-term nutrient depletion, immediate nutrient displacement, chronic inflammation on a molecular level, and long term chronic disease. The less the better. TC
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Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:04:32 GMT |
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George Cherr #15 / 79
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 Soy proteins versus Animal proteins / kidneys
Quote:
>>> What is killing us and making us obese is the grain-based diet. It >>> isn't that we are eating too much, it is that we are eating too much >>> grain, refined grain products, and sugars. Not to mention vegetable >>> oils that are new to our diet. Especially the hydrogenated vegetable >>> oils. Just like refined white flour and refined white sugar, overly >>> processed refined hydrogenated vegetable oils are slow poisons. >> That's a fallacy brought to us by the latest in a long string of fade >> diets -- "low-carb". While refined carbs via soda pop, sugary juices, >> and products made from gummy white flour are certainly a significant >> part of the problem, to make no mention of, or worse completely >> exonerate, deep-fried [Long John Silver's] fish, greasy [Big Mac/Burger >> King/Wendy's] double-bacon cheeseburgers, slimey [Kentucky Fried] >> chicken, and artery-stopping [Pizza Hut] "Meat Lovers" pizza is a huge >> disservice to this NG. And your continuous attempt to link and confuse >> refined grain with nutrious whole grain and hydrogenated oils with >> healthy unrefined vegetable oils, at best, could be described as >> mischievous. So why don't you just stop the nonsense? >> Patrick > 1. Keep calories from carbohydrates under 40% of the diet no matter > whether so called simple or complex. > 2. Avoid hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils of any kind > Meat NEVER hurt any normal person. > Protein, oils, and fiber are a requirement. > It takes a lot of vegetables and fruits to get sufficient fiber. They > also contain carbohydrates. That doesn't leave much room for too much > meat and very little room for much grains and practically NO room for soda > pop or candy. > BTW a Big Mac with onions, lettuce, tomatoes, cheese (no fries), (no pop > of ANY kind) is one of the healthier dinners around. It's all relative.
What about the bun? What's that good for?
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Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:20:26 GMT |
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