Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet? 
Author Message
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Vegetarianism covers other issues besides a low fat diet.  Most people on a
vegetarian diet do it for political, religious, or ethical reasons.  In
short, they follow vegetarianism due to their  animal rights beliefs.
Hence, vegetarianism covers issues beyond the scope of a dieting newsgroup.

As a low fat diet, vegetarian diets provides its practitioners with health
benefits.  I believe, however, that a vegetarian diet requires a lot of
extra work which out weighs its benefits.  One can always eat an occasional
vegetarian meal, and eat more fruits and vegetables without following a
strict vegetarian diet.  When following a strict vegetarian diet you have
to plan your meals so that you get adequate amounts of vitamin B-12 and
complete protein from plant sources. This takes a lot of extra work that is
hardly worth the effort, unless you believe in animal right issues.

Dr. Dean Ornish is probably the most famous pusher of vegetarian diets for
health reasons. He is the renowned author and proponent of a program
to reverse heart disease. Dr. Ornish developed two diets, which are
described below.

THE FOUNDATION OF DR. ORNISH'S CLAIMS:
- Each gram of fat contains nine calories while protein and carbohydrates
contain four calories per gram. A person can essentially eat more cooking.net">food on a
very low-fat diet since fewer calories are consumed in each meal.

- "Eating fat makes you fat." and causes heart disease. Fat that is ingested
by the body is easily converted into body fat. Complex carbohydrates, the
staple of low-fat diets, are less easily converted to body fat. Complex
carbohydrates are starches such as grains, beans, vegetables, and fruits.

- Saturated fat is converted by the liver to cholesterol and raises the
{*filter*} cholesterol level. Saturated fat is found largely in animal products,
but high amounts are also found in avocados, nuts, and seeds.
Monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat do not raise cholesterol levels.

CRITICISMS OF DR. ORNISH'S APPROACH
Dr. Ornish claims that you should maintain your total cholesterol level at
150 or below.  While this  will prevent heart disease, it will also promote
an increase in deaths from cancer and bleeding stroke.  Thus, you should
stick to Dr. Ornish's diets for two years or less, inorder to reduce your
risk of heart disease. His belief that eating fat will make you fat, simply
is NOT true. He minimizes the importance of fat in your diet. He does not
stress the importance of Omega-3 EFA's in your diet.  Thus, persons with
Syndrome-X or insulin resistance should add adequate amounts of Omega-3
EFA's to  Dr. Ornish's diets.

THE REVERSAL DIET:
The Reversal Diet is for people with known heart disease who want to reverse
its effects and lower their heart attack risk.

The Reversal Diet has the following restrictions:

-"has less than 10% of calories from fat, and little of it is saturated
  excludes foods high in saturated fat (such as avocados, nuts, and seeds)

-is high in fiber

-allows but does not encourage moderate {*filter*} consumption (less than two
ounces per day)

-excludes all oils and all animal products except nonfat milk [and nonfat
dairy products] and nonfat yogurt [i.e. meats, poultry, seafood are all
excluded]

-allows egg whites

-excludes caffeine, other stimulants, and MSG

-allows moderate use of salt and sugar

-is not restricted in calories"

THE PREVENTION DIET:
The Prevention Diet is recommended for people who do not have heart
disease but whose cholesterol levels are above 150 without cholesterol
lowering medication, or for people with a ratio of total cholesterol to HDL
(good cholesterol) that is less than 3.0.

A person may decrease the amount of saturated fat and cholesterol in the
diet, beginning by eating a diet that is less than 20% fat (a doubling of
the amount of fat recommended in the Reversal Diet). After eight weeks, if a
new cholesterol test does not show a reduction in cholesterol to the target
level of 150, more foods high in saturated fats and cholesterol can be
eliminated. Cholesterol can be checked again after eight weeks. The Reversal
Diet can be used as a guide in eliminating foods. If the target level cannot
be achieved through diet alone, other methods will have to be pursued such
as exercise and stress reduction. If the cholesterol level remains high, Dr.
Ornish states that a person may want to consider the use of
cholesterol-lowering medications, especially if a person has heart disease
or several risk factors for heart disease.

John Gohde,  Health Nag

http://www.***.com/
http://www.***.com/
Anyone genuinely interested in diet, nutrition, and nutritional
supplements should take a strong stand against Nutrition Quackery,
cooking.net">food Faddism, and Nutritional Supplements Quackery anywhere
they see it.  If you don't, no one will take your interests seriously.



Mon, 18 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Quote:

>Saturated fat is found largely in animal products,
>but high amounts are also found in avocados, nuts, and seeds.

This statement is not true in general or even a very
good rule of thumb.  Here is a selection of cooking.net">food items
from the USDA SR12 DB, showing the percentage of their
contained fat which is saturated:
  7% Black walnuts
 10% Almonds
 11% Sunflower seeds
 15% Peanuts
 15% Sesame seeds
 27% Avocado
 35% Ham
 46% Beef (top sirloin)
 67% Cheddar cheese
 95% Coconut

So: some vegetable products have more saturated fat
than most animal products.  Nuts and seeds tend to
be low in saturated fats, and avocado is moderate.

Quote:
>Monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat do not raise
>cholesterol levels.

Right!  If only the rest of the world knew that ...

sherm



Mon, 18 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?
Whoops!  Slip of the calculator.  An avocado's fat
is 17% saturated, not 27% as I posted.  I think that
puts it in the low-in-saturated fat category,
along with most nuts and seeds.

Corrected post:

Quote:

>Saturated fat is found largely in animal products,
>but high amounts are also found in avocados, nuts, and seeds.

This statement is not true in general or even a very
good rule of thumb.  Here is a selection of cooking.net">food items
from the USDA SR12 DB, showing the percentage of their
contained fat which is saturated:

 7%  Black walnuts
 10% Almonds
 11% Sunflower seeds
 15% Peanuts
 15% Sesame seeds
 17% Avocado
 35% Ham
 46% Beef (top sirloin)
 67% Cheddar cheese
 95% Coconut

So: some vegetable products have more saturated fat
than most animal products.  Avocado, nuts and seeds tend to
be low in saturated fats.

Quote:
>Monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat do not raise
>cholesterol levels.

Right!  If only the rest of the world knew that ...

sherm



Mon, 18 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Quote:

>Whoops!  Slip of the calculator.  An avocado's fat
>is 17% saturated, not 27% as I posted.  I think that
>puts it in the low-in-saturated fat category,
>along with most nuts and seeds.

Well, for my part I prefer to eat something with 40 %saturated fats
rather than 40% omega-6 acids and no omega-3 if the amount of that
ingredient is a dominating one. If it comes out as a mena of 1 g pr day
during the year, there is no reason to wonder to eat or not to eat, but
if the ingredient is 100 g pr day or more, it may be a good idea to
rethink (milk eg) and maybe reduce the total amount. (My milk intake
restricts to 500 g 20% fat 'r?mme' (a kind of soured creame) pr week
while mean intake of whole milk in Norway is more than 250 g pr day!)

---------------------------------
All text is my opinion.
Alf Christophersen, UiO
Tel. +47 22 85 13 27, Fax: 22 85 15 32
URL: http://www.uio.no/~achristo



Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Quote:
> Here is a selection of cooking.net">food items
> from the USDA SR12 DB, showing the percentage of their
> contained fat which is saturated:

> 7%  Black walnuts
> 10% Almonds
> 11% Sunflower seeds
> 15% Peanuts
> 15% Sesame seeds
> 17% Avocado
> 35% Ham
> 46% Beef (top sirloin)
> 67% Cheddar cheese
> 95% Coconut

It would be more useful to give the absolute amount of
saturated fat per standard serving.  Based on the above
data alone, I can't tell if I would get more saturated
fat from a serving of coconut or a serving of cheddar
cheese (because I don't know how much total fat is in
each).

Matt



Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Quote:

>> Here is a selection of cooking.net">food items
>> from the USDA SR12 DB, showing the percentage of their
>> contained fat which is saturated:

>> 7%  Black walnuts
>> 10% Almonds
>> 11% Sunflower seeds
>> 15% Peanuts
>> 15% Sesame seeds
>> 17% Avocado
>> 35% Ham
>> 46% Beef (top sirloin)
>> 67% Cheddar cheese
>> 95% Coconut

>It would be more useful to give the absolute amount of
>saturated fat per standard serving.  Based on the above
>data alone, I can't tell if I would get more saturated
>fat from a serving of coconut or a serving of cheddar
>cheese (because I don't know how much total fat is in
>each).

The original post was in the context of a low-fat
Ornish diet, with a specified % of calories coming from
fat, say 10%.  Given that one will be consuming a
fixed amount of fat, with a goal to minimize saturated
fat, then it makes sense to track the information as
I've done above.

Your comment would apply to someone engaged in
uncontrolled eating, where a "serving" of this
or a "serving" of that might be consumed regardless
of the nutritional content.  I do not think that
applies to most people on this NG, but perhaps I
am wrong.

sherm



Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Quote:

> > Here is a selection of cooking.net">food items
> > from the USDA SR12 DB, showing the percentage of their
> > contained fat which is saturated:

> > 7%  Black walnuts
> > 10% Almonds
> > 11% Sunflower seeds
> > 15% Peanuts
> > 15% Sesame seeds
> > 17% Avocado
> > 35% Ham
> > 46% Beef (top sirloin)
> > 67% Cheddar cheese
> > 95% Coconut

> It would be more useful to give the absolute amount of
> saturated fat per standard serving.  Based on the above
> data alone, I can't tell if I would get more saturated
> fat from a serving of coconut or a serving of cheddar
> cheese (because I don't know how much total fat is in
> each).

> Matt

if you really want to know you should seek out the usda sr12 database.
it's the only way to make sense of these args.

try http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/



Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?
The level of your ignorance is astounding for someone who claims to be
well-read on the subject. Being vegetarian has NOTHING to do with
animal rights issues. Please list all the reasons why I should eat meat
and dairy and lets discuss your need for re-education in something you
have absolutely no knowledge about. I'm really going to enjoy this.


Quote:

> Vegetarianism covers other issues besides a low fat diet.  Most
> people on a
> vegetarian diet do it for political, religious, or ethical
> reasons.  In
> short, they follow vegetarianism due to their  animal rights
> beliefs.
> Hence, vegetarianism covers issues beyond the scope of a dieting
> newsgroup.
> As a low fat diet, vegetarian diets provides its practitioners
> with health
> benefits.  I believe, however, that a vegetarian diet requires a
> lot of
> extra work which out weighs its benefits.  One can always eat an
> occasional
> vegetarian meal, and eat more fruits and vegetables without
> following a
> strict vegetarian diet.  When following a strict vegetarian diet
> you have
> to plan your meals so that you get adequate amounts of vitamin
> B-12 and
> complete protein from plant sources. This takes a lot of extra
> work that is
> hardly worth the effort, unless you believe in animal right issues.
> Dr. Dean Ornish is probably the most famous pusher of vegetarian
> diets for
> health reasons. He is the renowned author and proponent of a
> program
> to reverse heart disease. Dr. Ornish developed two diets, which are
> described below.
> THE FOUNDATION OF DR. ORNISH'S CLAIMS:
> - Each gram of fat contains nine calories while protein and
> carbohydrates
> contain four calories per gram. A person can essentially eat more
> cooking.net">food on a
> very low-fat diet since fewer calories are consumed in each meal.
> - "Eating fat makes you fat." and causes heart disease. Fat that
> is ingested
> by the body is easily converted into body fat. Complex
> carbohydrates, the
> staple of low-fat diets, are less easily converted to body fat.
> Complex
> carbohydrates are starches such as grains, beans, vegetables, and
> fruits.
> - Saturated fat is converted by the liver to cholesterol and
> raises the
> {*filter*} cholesterol level. Saturated fat is found largely in animal
> products,
> but high amounts are also found in avocados, nuts, and seeds.
> Monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat do not raise
> cholesterol levels.
> CRITICISMS OF DR. ORNISH'S APPROACH
> Dr. Ornish claims that you should maintain your total cholesterol
> level at
> 150 or below.  While this  will prevent heart disease, it will
> also promote
> an increase in deaths from cancer and bleeding stroke.  Thus, you
> should
> stick to Dr. Ornish's diets for two years or less, inorder to
> reduce your
> risk of heart disease. His belief that eating fat will make you
> fat, simply
> is NOT true. He minimizes the importance of fat in your diet. He
> does not
> stress the importance of Omega-3 EFA's in your diet.  Thus,
> persons with
> Syndrome-X or insulin resistance should add adequate amounts of
> Omega-3
> EFA's to  Dr. Ornish's diets.
> THE REVERSAL DIET:
> The Reversal Diet is for people with known heart disease who want
> to reverse
> its effects and lower their heart attack risk.
> The Reversal Diet has the following restrictions:
> -"has less than 10% of calories from fat, and little of it is
> saturated
>   excludes foods high in saturated fat (such as avocados, nuts,
> and seeds)
> -is high in fiber
> -allows but does not encourage moderate {*filter*} consumption (less
> than two
> ounces per day)
> -excludes all oils and all animal products except nonfat milk [and
> nonfat
> dairy products] and nonfat yogurt [i.e. meats, poultry, seafood
> are all
> excluded]
> -allows egg whites
> -excludes caffeine, other stimulants, and MSG
> -allows moderate use of salt and sugar
> -is not restricted in calories"
> THE PREVENTION DIET:
> The Prevention Diet is recommended for people who do not have heart
> disease but whose cholesterol levels are above 150 without
> cholesterol
> lowering medication, or for people with a ratio of total
> cholesterol to HDL
> (good cholesterol) that is less than 3.0.
> A person may decrease the amount of saturated fat and cholesterol
> in the
> diet, beginning by eating a diet that is less than 20% fat (a
> doubling of
> the amount of fat recommended in the Reversal Diet). After eight
> weeks, if a
> new cholesterol test does not show a reduction in cholesterol to
> the target
> level of 150, more foods high in saturated fats and cholesterol
> can be
> eliminated. Cholesterol can be checked again after eight weeks.
> The Reversal
> Diet can be used as a guide in eliminating foods. If the target
> level cannot
> be achieved through diet alone, other methods will have to be
> pursued such
> as exercise and stress reduction. If the cholesterol level remains
> high, Dr.
> Ornish states that a person may want to consider the use of
> cholesterol-lowering medications, especially if a person has heart
> disease
> or several risk factors for heart disease.
> John Gohde,  Health Nag
> http://www.***.com/
> http://www.***.com/
> Anyone genuinely interested in diet, nutrition, and nutritional
> supplements should take a strong stand against Nutrition Quackery,
> cooking.net">food Faddism, and Nutritional Supplements Quackery anywhere
> they see it.  If you don't, no one will take your interests
> seriously.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.***.com/ The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


Thu, 23 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Quote:
>Being vegetarian has NOTHING to do with
>animal rights issues.

Well, sometimes it does.


Fri, 24 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?

Quote:
> The level of your ignorance is astounding for someone who claims to be
> well-read on the subject. Being vegetarian has NOTHING to do with
> animal rights issues.

I think your comment speaks for itself.

The history of this very newsgroup started with a group of animal right
activists who took over sci.med.nutrition for a long period of time.

Obviously, you never searched the WEB on this topic.  You can hardly talk
about vegetarianism without someone bringing up the topic of animal rights.
Those who follow this diet, or any other diet for that matter, for health
reasons are in the minority.

Quote:


> > Vegetarianism covers other issues besides a low fat diet.  Most
> > people on a
> > vegetarian diet do it for political, religious, or ethical
> > reasons.  In
> > short, they follow vegetarianism due to their  animal rights
> > beliefs.
> > Hence, vegetarianism covers issues beyond the scope of a dieting
> > newsgroup.
> > As a low fat diet, vegetarian diets provides its practitioners
> > with health
> > benefits.  I believe, however, that a vegetarian diet requires a
> > lot of
> > extra work which out weighs its benefits.  One can always eat an
> > occasional
> > vegetarian meal, and eat more fruits and vegetables without
> > following a
> > strict vegetarian diet.  When following a strict vegetarian diet
> > you have
> > to plan your meals so that you get adequate amounts of vitamin
> > B-12 and
> > complete protein from plant sources. This takes a lot of extra
> > work that is
> > hardly worth the effort, unless you believe in animal right issues.
> > Dr. Dean Ornish is probably the most famous pusher of vegetarian
> > diets for
> > health reasons. He is the renowned author and proponent of a
> > program
> > to reverse heart disease. Dr. Ornish developed two diets, which are
> > described below.
> > THE FOUNDATION OF DR. ORNISH'S CLAIMS:
> > - Each gram of fat contains nine calories while protein and
> > carbohydrates
> > contain four calories per gram. A person can essentially eat more
> > cooking.net">food on a
> > very low-fat diet since fewer calories are consumed in each meal.
> > - "Eating fat makes you fat." and causes heart disease. Fat that
> > is ingested
> > by the body is easily converted into body fat. Complex
> > carbohydrates, the
> > staple of low-fat diets, are less easily converted to body fat.
> > Complex
> > carbohydrates are starches such as grains, beans, vegetables, and
> > fruits.
> > - Saturated fat is converted by the liver to cholesterol and
> > raises the
> > {*filter*} cholesterol level. Saturated fat is found largely in animal
> > products,
> > but high amounts are also found in avocados, nuts, and seeds.
> > Monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat do not raise
> > cholesterol levels.
> > CRITICISMS OF DR. ORNISH'S APPROACH
> > Dr. Ornish claims that you should maintain your total cholesterol
> > level at
> > 150 or below.  While this  will prevent heart disease, it will
> > also promote
> > an increase in deaths from cancer and bleeding stroke.  Thus, you
> > should
> > stick to Dr. Ornish's diets for two years or less, inorder to
> > reduce your
> > risk of heart disease. His belief that eating fat will make you
> > fat, simply
> > is NOT true. He minimizes the importance of fat in your diet. He
> > does not
> > stress the importance of Omega-3 EFA's in your diet.  Thus,
> > persons with
> > Syndrome-X or insulin resistance should add adequate amounts of
> > Omega-3
> > EFA's to  Dr. Ornish's diets.
> > THE REVERSAL DIET:
> > The Reversal Diet is for people with known heart disease who want
> > to reverse
> > its effects and lower their heart attack risk.
> > The Reversal Diet has the following restrictions:
> > -"has less than 10% of calories from fat, and little of it is
> > saturated
> >   excludes foods high in saturated fat (such as avocados, nuts,
> > and seeds)
> > -is high in fiber
> > -allows but does not encourage moderate {*filter*} consumption (less
> > than two
> > ounces per day)
> > -excludes all oils and all animal products except nonfat milk [and
> > nonfat
> > dairy products] and nonfat yogurt [i.e. meats, poultry, seafood
> > are all
> > excluded]
> > -allows egg whites
> > -excludes caffeine, other stimulants, and MSG
> > -allows moderate use of salt and sugar
> > -is not restricted in calories"
> > THE PREVENTION DIET:
> > The Prevention Diet is recommended for people who do not have heart
> > disease but whose cholesterol levels are above 150 without
> > cholesterol
> > lowering medication, or for people with a ratio of total
> > cholesterol to HDL
> > (good cholesterol) that is less than 3.0.
> > A person may decrease the amount of saturated fat and cholesterol
> > in the
> > diet, beginning by eating a diet that is less than 20% fat (a
> > doubling of
> > the amount of fat recommended in the Reversal Diet). After eight
> > weeks, if a
> > new cholesterol test does not show a reduction in cholesterol to
> > the target
> > level of 150, more foods high in saturated fats and cholesterol
> > can be
> > eliminated. Cholesterol can be checked again after eight weeks.
> > The Reversal
> > Diet can be used as a guide in eliminating foods. If the target
> > level cannot
> > be achieved through diet alone, other methods will have to be
> > pursued such
> > as exercise and stress reduction. If the cholesterol level remains
> > high, Dr.
> > Ornish states that a person may want to consider the use of
> > cholesterol-lowering medications, especially if a person has heart
> > disease
> > or several risk factors for heart disease.
> > John Gohde,  Health Nag
> > http://www.***.com/
> > http://www.***.com/
> > Anyone genuinely interested in diet, nutrition, and nutritional
> > supplements should take a strong stand against Nutrition Quackery,
> > cooking.net">food Faddism, and Nutritional Supplements Quackery anywhere
> > they see it.  If you don't, no one will take your interests
> > seriously.

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.***.com/ The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!



Fri, 24 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?
Quote:

> The level of your ignorance is astounding for someone who claims to be
> well-read on the subject. Being vegetarian has NOTHING to do with
> animal rights issues. Please list all the reasons why I should eat meat
> and dairy and lets discuss your need for re-education in something you
> have absolutely no knowledge about. I'm really going to enjoy this.

Agree(because most vegetarians are not vegans). I've been studying
vegetarian diets for several years. The ONLY reason i have found to eat
some animal products, much to my surprise is to get b12(all b12 is
animal source). I can get that in a pill.

Regards.



Fri, 24 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:39:24 -0500, in sci.med.nutrition "John Gohde"

Quote:

>Obviously, you never searched the WEB on this topic.  You can hardly talk
>about vegetarianism without someone bringing up the topic of animal rights.
>Those who follow this diet, or any other diet for that matter, for health
>reasons are in the minority.

That has not been my experience with vegetarians. How can you say
those who follow any other diet are not doing it for health reasons?
Please explain that one because when you say "any other diet" you
include vegetarian, asian, mediterranean, low caloric, low
carbohydrate, etc, etc.

Rob

E-mail should be sent to ruddyr at home dot com.



Sat, 25 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?
Quote:

> The level of your ignorance is astounding for someone who claims to be
> well-read on the subject. Being vegetarian has NOTHING to do with
> animal rights issues. Please list all the reasons why I should eat meat
> and dairy and lets discuss your need for re-education in something you
> have absolutely no knowledge about. I'm really going to enjoy this.



> > Vegetarianism covers other issues besides a low fat diet.  Most
> > people on a
> > vegetarian diet do it for political, religious, or ethical
> > reasons.  In
> > short, they follow vegetarianism due to their  animal rights
> > beliefs.
> > Hence, vegetarianism covers issues beyond the scope of a dieting
> > newsgroup.
> > As a low fat diet, vegetarian diets provides its practitioners
> > with health
> > benefits.  I believe, however, that a vegetarian diet requires a
> > lot of
> > extra work which out weighs its benefits.  One can always eat an
> > occasional
> > vegetarian meal, and eat more fruits and vegetables without
> > following a
> > strict vegetarian diet.  When following a strict vegetarian diet
> > you have
> > to plan your meals so that you get adequate amounts of vitamin
> > B-12 and
> > complete protein from plant sources.

That's not true. Every cell of every living organism contains all 20
amino acids. With very few exceptions, all grains, beans, and vegetables
are complete proteins. Protein deficiencies are almost impossible to get
on a diet that provides a sufficient number of calories, unless your
protein needs have been elevated by an especially serious injury. The
RDAs for protein have a built in safety margin, so that most people only
need to eat about half their RDA of protein, provided that their diet
provides variety. Go to Yahoo and type in Walton Feed. Walton Feed is a
company that produces flaxseeds and other cooking.net">food products. Its website
provides detailed information on protein. As for Vitamin B-12, there are
vegan B-12 supplements. Fresh Fields produces a delicious vegan chewable
multivitamin that provides 1 mcg per tablet. There are also certain B
vitamin supplements that some vegetarians use. Just make sure that if it
contains stearic acid or magnesium stearate, which most dietary
supplements do, it is from plant sources.
 This takes a lot of extra
Quote:
> > work that is
> > hardly worth the effort, unless you believe in animal right issues.

I do believe that animals are entitled to certain inalienable m{*filter*}
rights, but it is OK to reduce or eliminate your consumption of nonvegan
cooking.net">food for health reasons.
Quote:
> > Dr. Dean Ornish is probably the most famous pusher of vegetarian
> > diets for
> > health reasons. He is the renowned author and proponent of a
> > program
> > to reverse heart disease. Dr. Ornish developed two diets, which are
> > described below.
> > THE FOUNDATION OF DR. ORNISH'S CLAIMS:
> > - Each gram of fat contains nine calories while protein and
> > carbohydrates
> > contain four calories per gram. A person can essentially eat more
> > cooking.net">food on a
> > very low-fat diet since fewer calories are consumed in each meal.
> > - "Eating fat makes you fat." and causes heart disease. Fat that
> > is ingested
> > by the body is easily converted into body fat.

It can also be burned for energy or used to repair and enlarge other
body tissues.
 Complex
Quote:
> > carbohydrates, the
> > staple of low-fat diets, are less easily converted to body fat.
> > Complex
> > carbohydrates are starches such as grains, beans, vegetables, and
> > fruits.
> > - Saturated fat is converted by the liver to cholesterol and
> > raises the
> > {*filter*} cholesterol level. Saturated fat is found largely in animal
> > products,
> > but high amounts are also found in avocados, nuts, and seeds.

That's right, but (except for coconuts) over 80% of the fat found in
seeds is unsaturated.
Quote:
> > Monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat do not raise
> > cholesterol levels.

Monounsatured fat raises cholestrol levels, but at least it mostly just
raises HDL levels. Polyunsaturated fat causes a net decrease in {*filter*}
lipoprotein levels, but that's only because it lovers HDL levels.
According to the person who designed the diet called "The 10% Solution,"
polyunsaturated fat actually causes a slight increase in LDL levels.
Quote:
> > CRITICISMS OF DR. ORNISH'S APPROACH
> > Dr. Ornish claims that you should maintain your total cholesterol
> > level at
> > 150 or below.  While this  will prevent heart disease, it will
> > also promote
> > an increase in deaths from cancer and bleeding stroke.

Are there any studies confirming this, or is the risk of death from
stroke and cancer caused because people on lowfat vegetarian diets live
longer?
 Thus, you
Quote:
> > should
> > stick to Dr. Ornish's diets for two years or less, inorder to
> > reduce your
> > risk of heart disease. His belief that eating fat will make you
> > fat, simply
> > is NOT true.

In order for eating more than 10-15% of your calories from fat to not
make you fat, you would have to limit your cooking.net">food intake, or else consume
large quantities of celery, lettuce, and other green vegetables.
He minimizes the importance of fat in your diet. He
Quote:
> > does not
> > stress the importance of Omega-3 EFA's in your diet.

Omega 3 is important. If I had been the one designing that lowfat diet
you're talking about, I would have emphasized the importance of EFA's.
 Thus,

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> > persons with
> > Syndrome-X or insulin resistance should add adequate amounts of
> > Omega-3
> > EFA's to  Dr. Ornish's diets.
> > THE REVERSAL DIET:
> > The Reversal Diet is for people with known heart disease who want
> > to reverse
> > its effects and lower their heart attack risk.
> > The Reversal Diet has the following restrictions:
> > -"has less than 10% of calories from fat, and little of it is
> > saturated
> >   excludes foods high in saturated fat (such as avocados, nuts,
> > and seeds)
> > -is high in fiber
> > -allows but does not encourage moderate {*filter*} consumption (less
> > than two
> > ounces per day)
> > -excludes all oils and all animal products except nonfat milk [and
> > nonfat
> > dairy products] and nonfat yogurt [i.e. meats, poultry, seafood
> > are all
> > excluded]

I have read what he wrote about the reversal diet. Consumption of
"nonfat" milk is limited to 1 cup a day and vegetable oil can be
consumed in extremely small amounts.
Quote:
> > -allows egg whites
> > -excludes caffeine, other stimulants, and MSG
> > -allows moderate use of salt and sugar
> > -is not restricted in calories"

He claims it isn't, but it really is. He stated in his book that a
person should only eat when hungry. In order to get hungry, a person
must temporarily avoid eating a significant number of calories. This is
why little kids who eat cake and ice cream at a birthday party never
want to eat dinner right afterwards. This is also why people who eat
breakfast don't get hungry for lunch as early as people who don't.
Quote:
> > THE PREVENTION DIET:
> > The Prevention Diet is recommended for people who do not have heart
> > disease but whose cholesterol levels are above 150 without
> > cholesterol
> > lowering medication, or for people with a ratio of total
> > cholesterol to HDL
> > (good cholesterol) that is less than 3.0.
> > A person may decrease the amount of saturated fat and cholesterol
> > in the
> > diet, beginning by eating a diet that is less than 20% fat (a
> > doubling of
> > the amount of fat recommended in the Reversal Diet).

Vegetarians tend to have an easier time acheiving 20% than meat eaters
do, because they eat out less often and do not indulge themselves in
high-fat meat.
After eight

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> > weeks, if a
> > new cholesterol test does not show a reduction in cholesterol to
> > the target
> > level of 150, more foods high in saturated fats and cholesterol
> > can be
> > eliminated. Cholesterol can be checked again after eight weeks.
> > The Reversal
> > Diet can be used as a guide in eliminating foods. If the target
> > level cannot
> > be achieved through diet alone, other methods will have to be
> > pursued such
> > as exercise and stress reduction. If the cholesterol level remains
> > high, Dr.
> > Ornish states that a person may want to consider the use of
> > cholesterol-lowering medications, especially if a person has heart
> > disease
> > or several risk factors for heart disease.
> > John Gohde,  Health Nag
> > http://www.***.com/
> > http://www.***.com/
> > Anyone genuinely interested in diet, nutrition, and nutritional
> > supplements should take a strong stand against Nutrition Quackery,
> > cooking.net">food Faddism, and Nutritional Supplements Quackery anywhere
> > they see it.  If you don't, no one will take your interests
> > seriously.

I couldn't agree with you more, except that vegetarianism is not a fad
diet. It's a m{*filter*}imperative.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.***.com/ The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!



Wed, 29 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?
Quote:

> On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:39:24 -0500, in sci.med.nutrition "John Gohde"

> >Obviously, you never searched the WEB on this topic.  You can hardly talk
> >about vegetarianism without someone bringing up the topic of animal rights.
> >Those who follow this diet, or any other diet for that matter, for health
> >reasons are in the minority.

> That has not been my experience with vegetarians. How can you say
> those who follow any other diet are not doing it for health reasons?
> Please explain that one because when you say "any other diet" you
> include vegetarian, asian, mediterranean, low caloric, low
> carbohydrate, etc, etc.

Most people who call themselves vegetarians aren't. There are people who
consider themselves vegetarians because they don't eat pigs or cows,
even if they continue to eat fish, shellfish, foods with animal
byproducts such as gelatin or rennet, and in some cases these
"vegetarians" even eat chicken and turkey. At a minimum, a person should
eliminate meat from his diet before describing himself as a vegetarian.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Rob

> E-mail should be sent to ruddyr at home dot com.



Thu, 30 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 Is a Vegetarian Diet a Low Fat Diet?
Quote:


> > The level of your ignorance is astounding for someone who claims to be
> > well-read on the subject. Being vegetarian has NOTHING to do with
> > animal rights issues. Please list all the reasons why I should eat meat
> > and dairy and lets discuss your need for re-education in something you
> > have absolutely no knowledge about. I'm really going to enjoy this.

> Agree(because most vegetarians are not vegans). I've been studying
> vegetarian diets for several years. The ONLY reason i have found to eat
> some animal products, much to my surprise is to get b12(all b12 is
> animal source). I can get that in a pill.

That was true years ago, when they extracted it from livers, but today
the producers of vitamin B-12 produce it aritificially to save money.
The Vegetarian Resource Group's guide to cooking.net">food ingredients classifies
Vitamin B-12 as vegan. By the way, humans are the only mammals who
require more active vitamin B-12 than is supplied by our intestinal
bacteria.
Quote:

> Regards.



Thu, 30 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT
 
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