does drinking more milk increase ra 
Author Message
 does drinking more milk increase ra

Quote:
>>This stands to reason because of milks great calcium - magnesium imbalance.

The bones turn to chalk and the digestive system gets irritated to the
point
of uselessness and malnutition results.
COMMENT:
Did you read the posted studies?
Anyway, Pizza Girl, you might be interested in the fact that human milk
has the same calcium/magesium ratio as cow's milk: about 10 to 1.  If
the baby's bones don't turn to chalk, it's rather unlikely that the
{*filter*}'s do.
SBH


Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:58:51 GMT
 does drinking more milk increase ra
Slight tack to port:
http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/archives/04-05/jun18.html
The role of calcium in builidng strong bones. Priest says calcium has
been way overrated. Much more important is physical
activity and Vit D.


Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:58:54 GMT
 does drinking more milk increase ra
The role of calcium in builidng strong bones. Priest says calcium has
been way overrated. Much more important is physical
activity and Vit D.
That's probably correct, and is even more correct for children and
young {*filter*}s than for older ones. A lot of the milk studies are
confounded by the fact that the milk is usually UV irradiated and
therefore supplemented with vitamin D.
Here's one for the pediatricians, a very large meta analysis. Result.
Bonewise, milk per se does little good, but also no harm in kids. Both
boosters and detractors of routine milk for kids as a way to build
strong bones, are going to be unhappy. Doesn't it suck when practically
EVERYBODY is wrong, establishment AND antiestablishment?
Pediatrics. 2005 Mar;115(3):736-43.
Comment in:
    Pediatrics. 2005 Mar;115(3):792-4.
Calcium, dairy products, and bone health in children and young {*filter*}s:
a
reevaluation of the evidence.
Lanou AJ, Berkow SE, Barnard ND.
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, 5100 Wisconsin Ave NW,
Suite 400,

OBJECTIVE: Numerous nutrition policy statements recommend the
consumption of 800
to 1500 mg of calcium largely from dairy products for osteoporosis
prevention;
however, the findings of epidemiologic and prospective studies have
raised
questions about the efficacy of the use of dairy products for the
promotion of
bone health. The objective of this study was to review existing
literature on
the effects of dairy products and total dietary calcium on bone
integrity in
children and young {*filter*}s to assess whether evidence supports (1)
current
recommended calcium intake levels and (2) the suggestion that dairy
products are
better for promoting bone integrity than other calcium-containing cooking.net">food
sources
or supplements. METHODS: A Medline (National Library of Medicine,
Bethesda, MD)
search was conducted for studies published on the relationship between
milk,
dairy products, or calcium intake and bone mineralization or fracture
risk in
children and young {*filter*}s (1-25 years). This search yielded 58 studies:
22
cross-sectional studies; 13 retrospective studies; 10 longitudinal
prospective
studies; and 13 randomized, controlled trials. RESULTS: Eleven of the
studies
did not control for weight, pubertal status, and exercise and were
excluded. Ten
studies were randomized, controlled trials of supplemental calcium, 9
of which
showed modest positive benefits on bone mineralization in children and
adolescents. Of the remaining 37 studies of dairy or unsupplemented
dietary
calcium intake, 27 studies found no relationship between dairy or
dietary
calcium intake and measures of bone health. In the remaining 9 reports,
the
effects on bone health are small and 3 were confounded by vitamin D
intake from
milk fortified with vitamin D. Therefore, in clinical, longitudinal,
retrospective, and cross-sectional studies, neither increased
consumption of
dairy products, specifically, nor total dietary calcium consumption has
shown
even a modestly consistent benefit for child or young {*filter*} bone
health.
CONCLUSION: Scant evidence supports nutrition guidelines focused
specifically on
increasing milk or other dairy product intake for promoting child and
adolescent
bone mineralization.
Publication Types:
    Review
PMID: 15741380 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
The case for milk and calcium as a way to prevent bone loss in type I
osteoporosis is a bit stronger, but confounded with vitamin D, and (as
noted) is mainly based on bone calcium measurements and hasn't been big
enough or long enough to directly show a lower major fracture rate at
hip or arm.
Here's a milk study, but uncontrolled for vitamin D. All you can say is
it provides evidence that milk per se doesn't do harm.
Osteoporos Int. 2003 Oct;14(10):828-34. Epub 2003 Aug 12.
The effect of milk supplementation on bone mineral density in
postmenopausal
Chinese women in Malaysia.
Chee WS, Suriah AR, Chan SP, Zaitun Y, Chan YM.
Department of Nutrition & Dietetics, Faculty of Allied Health Sciences,
National
University of Malaysia, Jalan Raja Muda Abdul Aziz, 50300 Kuala Lumpur,

Dietary studies often report low calcium intake amongst post-menopausal
Malaysian women and calcium deficiency has been implicated as part of
the
etiology of age-related bone loss leading to osteoporosis. Therefore,
the
objective of this study was to examine the effectiveness of high
calcium skimmed
milk (Anlene Gold, New Zealand Milk, Wellington, New Zealand) to reduce
bone
loss in Chinese postmenopausal women. Two hundred subjects aged 55-65
years and
who were more than 5 years postmenopausal were randomized to a milk
group and
control group. The milk group consumed 50 g of high calcium skimmed
milk powder
daily, which contained 1200 mg calcium (taken as two glasses of milk a
day). The
control group continued with their usual diet. Using repeated measures
ANCOVA,
the milk supplement was found to significantly reduce the percentage of
bone
loss at the total body compared to the control group at 24 months
(control
-1.04%, milk -0.13%; P
bone loss
in the control group was significantly higher (-0.90%) when compared to
the milk
(-0.13%) supplemented group at 24 months (P
supplementation reduced the percentage of bone loss at the fem{*filter*}neck
(control
-1.21%, milk 0.51%) (P
-0.50%)
(P
weight gain
over the 24 months. The serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D level improved
significantly
(P
at 24
months in the milk group. In conclusion, ingestion of high calcium
skimmed milk
was effective in reducing the rate of bone loss at clinically important
lumbar
spine and hip sites in postmenopausal Chinese women in Malaysia.
Supplementing
with milk had additional benefits of improving the serum 25-hydroxy
vitamin D
status of the subjects.
Publication Types:
    Clinical Trial
    Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 12915959 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Here's much the same kind of study in New England, showing much the
same kind of thing. Note that again, milk is better than placebo, and
just about as good as a calcium supplement. However, again both groups
got vitamin D and this may just as well explain the effect.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998 Nov;83(11):3817-25.
Calcium supplementation prevents seasonal bone loss and changes in
biochemical
markers of bone turnover in elderly New England women: a randomized
placebo-controlled trial.
Storm D, Eslin R, Porter ES, Musgrave K, Vereault D, Patton C,
Kessenich C,
Mohan S, Chen T, Holick MF, Rosen CJ.
St. Joseph Hospital, Bangor, Maine 04401, USA.
Elderly women are at increased risk for bone loss and fractures. In
previous
cross-sectional and longitudinal studies of women residing in northern
latitudes, bone loss was most pronounced during winter months and in
those
consuming less than 1 g calcium per day. In this study we sought to
test the
hypothesis that calcium supplementation by either calcium carbonate or
dietary
means would prevent seasonal bone loss and preserve bone mass. Sixty
older
postmenopausal women without osteoporosis were randomized to one of
three
treatment arms: Dietary milk supplementation (D-4 glasses of milk/day),
Calcium
carbonate (CaCO3-1000 mg/day in two divided doses), or placebo (P).
After 2 yr,
placebo-treated women consumed a mean of 683 mg/day of calcium and lost
3.0% of
their greater trochanteric (GT) bone mineral density (BMD) (P
vs.
baseline); Dietary supplemented women averaged a calcium intake of 1028
mg/day
and sustained minimal loss from the GT (-1.5%; P = 0.30), whereas
CaCO3-treated
women (total Ca intake, 1633 mg/day) suffered no bone loss from the GT
and
showed a significant increase in spinal and fem{*filter*}neck BMD (P
0.05). Fem{*filter*}
bone loss occurred exclusively during the two winters of the study
(i.e. total
loss, -3.2%; P
change in GT
BMD during summer. Serum 25-OH vitamin D declined by more than 20% (P
0.001)
in all groups during the winter months but returned to baseline in
summer; PTH
levels rose approximately 20% (P
return to
baseline during the summers. Urine N-telopeptide and osteocalcin levels
increased significantly but only in the P-treated women and only during
winter.
Serum insulin growth factor binding protein 4, an inhibitory insulin
growth
factor binding protein, rose 15% (P
this
increase was significant only in those women consuming
calcium.
By multivariate analysis, total calcium intake was the strongest
predictor of
bone loss from the hip. Urinary N-telopeptide also closely correlated
with GT
BMD but only during winter (P = 0.003). We conclude that calcium
supplementation
prevents bone loss in elderly women by suppressing bone turnover during
the
winter when serum 25-OH vitamin D declines and serum PTH increases. The
precise
amount of calcium necessary to preserve BMD in elderly women requires
further
studies, although in this study, at least 1000 mg/day of supplemental
calcium
was adequate prophylaxis against fem{*filter*}bone loss.
Publication Types:
    Clinical Trial
    Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 9814452 [PubMed - indexed for


Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:58:56 GMT
 does drinking more milk increase ra
Quote:

> In article
,
> George Lagergren

> >"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com"

> >> As I read it, the best evidence is that women are better advised to
> >> take calcium supplements for their calcium, and consider milk-drinking
> >> harmless recreation. As with chocolate cake.

> >         Per the www.notmilk.com web site, cow's milk-drinking is NOT a
> >harmless recreation.

> That web site is crap, George, no matter how much you want it to be
> true.

Perhaps you or our esteemed Dr. Harris would care to debate cow milk
science on live radio or tv with Robert Cohen?

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>   -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
>      These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
>      "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?"
>                                         -- The Goon Show



Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:58:59 GMT
 does drinking more milk increase ra
Quote:
>>Perhaps you or our esteemed Dr. Harris would care to debate cow milk

science on live radio or tv with Robert Cohen?
And have him speak a gallon of nonsense while I'm struggling to get in
a pint of reason?
We have pretty good debating medium right here on the internet. If
somebody says something, it's on the record and they can't claim they
didn't say it.  People can't make points without backup, without
getting called on their sources. There's time for either side to read
and evaluate new studies that the other hasn't seen.  You can't have
any decent fact-based debate without time for rebuttal and study of
sources.
If Cohen wants to debate me right here, bring him on.
SBH


Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:59:01 GMT
 does drinking more milk increase ra
No mention of the mass vomitting the women did four times per day.
"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com"

Quote:
> The role of calcium in builidng strong bones. Priest says calcium has
> been way overrated. Much more important is physical
> activity and Vit D.

> That's probably correct, and is even more correct for children and
> young {*filter*}s than for older ones. A lot of the milk studies are
> confounded by the fact that the milk is usually UV irradiated and
> therefore supplemented with vitamin D.

> Here's one for the pediatricians, a very large meta analysis. Result.
> Bonewise, milk per se does little good, but also no harm in kids. Both
> boosters and detractors of routine milk for kids as a way to build
> strong bones, are going to be unhappy. Doesn't it suck when practically
> EVERYBODY is wrong, establishment AND antiestablishment?

> Pediatrics. 2005 Mar;115(3):736-43.

> Comment in:
>     Pediatrics. 2005 Mar;115(3):792-4.

> Calcium, dairy products, and bone health in children and young {*filter*}s:
> a
> reevaluation of the evidence.

> Lanou AJ, Berkow SE, Barnard ND.

> Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, 5100 Wisconsin Ave NW,
> Suite 400,

> OBJECTIVE: Numerous nutrition policy statements recommend the
> consumption of 800
> to 1500 mg of calcium largely from dairy products for osteoporosis
> prevention;
> however, the findings of epidemiologic and prospective studies have
> raised
> questions about the efficacy of the use of dairy products for the
> promotion of
> bone health. The objective of this study was to review existing
> literature on
> the effects of dairy products and total dietary calcium on bone
> integrity in
> children and young {*filter*}s to assess whether evidence supports (1)
> current
> recommended calcium intake levels and (2) the suggestion that dairy
> products are
> better for promoting bone integrity than other calcium-containing cooking.net">food
> sources
> or supplements. METHODS: A Medline (National Library of Medicine,
> Bethesda, MD)
> search was conducted for studies published on the relationship between
> milk,
> dairy products, or calcium intake and bone mineralization or fracture
> risk in
> children and young {*filter*}s (1-25 years). This search yielded 58 studies:
> 22
> cross-sectional studies; 13 retrospective studies; 10 longitudinal
> prospective
> studies; and 13 randomized, controlled trials. RESULTS: Eleven of the
> studies
> did not control for weight, pubertal status, and exercise and were
> excluded. Ten
> studies were randomized, controlled trials of supplemental calcium, 9
> of which
> showed modest positive benefits on bone mineralization in children and
> adolescents. Of the remaining 37 studies of dairy or unsupplemented
> dietary
> calcium intake, 27 studies found no relationship between dairy or
> dietary
> calcium intake and measures of bone health. In the remaining 9 reports,
> the
> effects on bone health are small and 3 were confounded by vitamin D
> intake from
> milk fortified with vitamin D. Therefore, in clinical, longitudinal,
> retrospective, and cross-sectional studies, neither increased
> consumption of
> dairy products, specifically, nor total dietary calcium consumption has
> shown
> even a modestly consistent benefit for child or young {*filter*} bone
> health.
> CONCLUSION: Scant evidence supports nutrition guidelines focused
> specifically on
> increasing milk or other dairy product intake for promoting child and
> adolescent
> bone mineralization.

> Publication Types:
>     Review

> PMID: 15741380 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> The case for milk and calcium as a way to prevent bone loss in type I
> osteoporosis is a bit stronger, but confounded with vitamin D, and (as
> noted) is mainly based on bone calcium measurements and hasn't been big
> enough or long enough to directly show a lower major fracture rate at
> hip or arm.

> Here's a milk study, but uncontrolled for vitamin D. All you can say is
> it provides evidence that milk per se doesn't do harm.

> Osteoporos Int. 2003 Oct;14(10):828-34. Epub 2003 Aug 12.

> The effect of milk supplementation on bone mineral density in
> postmenopausal
> Chinese women in Malaysia.

> Chee WS, Suriah AR, Chan SP, Zaitun Y, Chan YM.

> Department of Nutrition & Dietetics, Faculty of Allied Health Sciences,
> National
> University of Malaysia, Jalan Raja Muda Abdul Aziz, 50300 Kuala Lumpur,

> Dietary studies often report low calcium intake amongst post-menopausal
> Malaysian women and calcium deficiency has been implicated as part of
> the
> etiology of age-related bone loss leading to osteoporosis. Therefore,
> the
> objective of this study was to examine the effectiveness of high
> calcium skimmed
> milk (Anlene Gold, New Zealand Milk, Wellington, New Zealand) to reduce
> bone
> loss in Chinese postmenopausal women. Two hundred subjects aged 55-65
> years and
> who were more than 5 years postmenopausal were randomized to a milk
> group and
> control group. The milk group consumed 50 g of high calcium skimmed
> milk powder
> daily, which contained 1200 mg calcium (taken as two glasses of milk a
> day). The
> control group continued with their usual diet. Using repeated measures
> ANCOVA,
> the milk supplement was found to significantly reduce the percentage of
> bone
> loss at the total body compared to the control group at 24 months
> (control
> -1.04%, milk -0.13%; P
> bone loss
> in the control group was significantly higher (-0.90%) when compared to
> the milk
> (-0.13%) supplemented group at 24 months (P
> supplementation reduced the percentage of bone loss at the fem{*filter*}neck
> (control
> -1.21%, milk 0.51%) (P
> -0.50%)
> (P
> weight gain
> over the 24 months. The serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D level improved
> significantly
> (P
> at 24
> months in the milk group. In conclusion, ingestion of high calcium
> skimmed milk
> was effective in reducing the rate of bone loss at clinically important
> lumbar
> spine and hip sites in postmenopausal Chinese women in Malaysia.
> Supplementing
> with milk had additional benefits of improving the serum 25-hydroxy
> vitamin D
> status of the subjects.

> Publication Types:
>     Clinical Trial
>     Randomized Controlled Trial

> PMID: 12915959 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> Here's much the same kind of study in New England, showing much the
> same kind of thing. Note that again, milk is better than placebo, and
> just about as good as a calcium supplement. However, again both groups
> got vitamin D and this may just as well explain the effect.

> J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998 Nov;83(11):3817-25.

> Calcium supplementation prevents seasonal bone loss and changes in
> biochemical
> markers of bone turnover in elderly New England women: a randomized
> placebo-controlled trial.

> Storm D, Eslin R, Porter ES, Musgrave K, Vereault D, Patton C,
> Kessenich C,
> Mohan S, Chen T, Holick MF, Rosen CJ.

> St. Joseph Hospital, Bangor, Maine 04401, USA.

> Elderly women are at increased risk for bone loss and fractures. In
> previous
> cross-sectional and longitudinal studies of women residing in northern
> latitudes, bone loss was most pronounced during winter months and in
> those
> consuming less than 1 g calcium per day. In this study we sought to
> test the
> hypothesis that calcium supplementation by either calcium carbonate or
> dietary
> means would prevent seasonal bone loss and preserve bone mass. Sixty
> older
> postmenopausal women without osteoporosis were randomized to one of
> three
> treatment arms: Dietary milk supplementation (D-4 glasses of milk/day),
> Calcium
> carbonate (CaCO3-1000 mg/day in two divided doses), or placebo (P).
> After 2 yr,
> placebo-treated women consumed a mean of 683 mg/day of calcium and lost
> 3.0% of
> their greater trochanteric (GT) bone mineral density (BMD) (P
> vs.
> baseline); Dietary supplemented women averaged a calcium intake of 1028
> mg/day
> and sustained minimal loss from the GT (-1.5%; P = 0.30), whereas
> CaCO3-treated
> women (total Ca intake, 1633 mg/day) suffered no bone loss from the GT
> and
> showed a significant increase in spinal and fem{*filter*}neck BMD (P
> 0.05). Fem{*filter*}
> bone loss occurred exclusively during the two winters of the study
> (i.e. total
> loss, -3.2%; P
> change in GT
> BMD during summer. Serum 25-OH vitamin D declined by more than 20% (P
> 0.001)
> in all groups during the winter months but returned to baseline in
> summer; PTH



Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:59:04 GMT
 does drinking more milk increase ra
You're letting out too much rope here with those statements.
"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com"

Quote:
> >>Perhaps you or our esteemed Dr. Harris would care to debate cow milk
> science on live radio or tv with Robert Cohen?

> And have him speak a gallon of nonsense while I'm struggling to get in
> a pint of reason?

> We have pretty good debating medium right here on the internet. If
> somebody says something, it's on the record and they can't claim they
> didn't say it.  People can't make points without backup, without
> getting called on their sources. There's time for either side to read
> and evaluate new studies that the other hasn't seen.  You can't have
> any decent fact-based debate without time for rebuttal and study of
> sources.

> If Cohen wants to debate me right here, bring him on.

> SBH



Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:59:03 GMT
 
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