Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss? 
Author Message
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Anyone have any suggestions for alternative treatments for bone loss caused
by calculus buildup? (The teeth were recently cleaned). One dentist suggested
co-enzyme q-10, vitamin c and one other thing (which I don't remember).

Would be interested in hearing about anyone who was able to reverse this
condition using nutritional methods.          



Mon, 08 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

I would recommend following the Mineral and General Supplementation
(multivitamin) recommendations in my post called "Diet and Supplement
Tips."

turf



Mon, 08 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Quote:

> I would recommend following the Mineral and General Supplementation
> (multivitamin) recommendations in my post called "Diet and Supplement
> Tips."

> turf

For this one, Dr. K. hit the nail on the head.  Gum disease buy any
other name..............

SWF DDS



Mon, 08 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

 -=> Quoting selah* to All <=-


 se> Anyone have any suggestions for alternative treatments for bone loss
 se> caused  by calculus buildup? (The teeth were recently cleaned). One
 se> dentist suggested  co-enzyme q-10, vitamin c and one other thing (which
 se> I don't remember).  
 se> Would be interested in hearing about anyone who was able to reverse
 se> this  condition using nutritional methods.          

Drink lots and lots of milk.

Haha, ah just kidding

... AIDS IS NOT CONTAGIOUS
--
|Fidonet:  Michael Martinez 1:382/804

|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.



Mon, 08 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Selah,
I don't know whether gum disease is any different, but how about this
one: A local dentist here was amazed when a patient who was facing bone
replacement surgery (due to radiation melting it away) showed up with her
jawbone rebuilt. She was using calcium supplementation. It worked, she
avoided surgery!

Use the right calcium with other minerals (magnesium, boron, etc.) to
increase absorption.

I've stopped my bleeding gums that were due to gum disease.
Try it! What have you got to lose.

Bob H.

Quote:

> Anyone have any suggestions for alternative treatments for bone loss caused
> by calculus buildup? (The teeth were recently cleaned). One dentist suggested
> co-enzyme q-10, vitamin c and one other thing (which I don't remember).

> Would be interested in hearing about anyone who was able to reverse this
> condition using nutritional methods.



Tue, 09 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

I had problems in my calf muscles and hair loss. Someone suggested shark
cartilige supplements.

Both problems have disappeared ... and nothing else changed in my diet
or lifestyle.



Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Quote:

> Anyone have any suggestions for alternative treatments for bone loss caused
> by calculus buildup? (The teeth were recently cleaned). One dentist suggested
> co-enzyme q-10, vitamin c and one other thing (which I don't remember).

> Would be interested in hearing about anyone who was able to reverse this
> condition using nutritional methods.

Bones and teeth recede from exposure to bacteria (such as in calculus build-up).
Chewable calcium tablets (must be taken with vitamin C to be most
effective) help remineralize teeth . When teeth are remineralized they are
also more infection resistant. Bone tissue heals remarkably well under
right conditions.
*Another remineralizing agent is fluoride- Potent fuoride mouth rinses can
be bought over-the-counter in pharmacies, though they are usually marketed
for children (the childrens' formulas work well for {*filter*}s). *Act* is a
good brand and instructions are on the bottle.

Diet (nutritional) is important. Fresh citrus fruits help recondition gums
and are rich in vitamin C which helps the body utilize Calcium.
*When gums are infected it leads to bone loss.To prevent bone loss get
your gums in shape/ biting into fresh citrus fruits (even lemons) tones
the gums.*The fruit must be totally fresh because many healing enzymes are
lost from exposure to air.

When choosing vitamin supplements, purchase the natural ones from a health
cooking.net">food store! They are much different than pharmacutical 'commercial'
varieties. Buy the vitamin C that contains the full C vitamin complex
(with hesperedin, rutin, bioflavinoids,etc.)--the body absorbs it best and
utilizes it better than the common ascorbic acid variety. Also, the
calcium supplements from health cooking.net">food store are better balanced and more
easily absorbed- calcium/magnesium tablets are the best because
calcium&magnesium need to be in balance with each other.

*Homeopathic remedies* are excellent for helping the body heal and restore
traumatized gum and bone tissue:
Arnica Montana is the homeopathic remedy most recommended for this (also
in health cooking.net">food stores). Follow directions on bottle and it is safe and
natural.

Also, recommended herbal treatments are *Myrrh* , *Goldenseal*, and
*Capsicum (cayenne pepper)* often sold in combination/ rub these directly
on teeth and gums. *Propolus* is also a natural antibiotic included in
many natural gum treatments.

*The best standby treatment of all is to brush and rinse your teeth with a
combination of baking soda, hydrogene peroxide and sea salt. This
disinfects and rids the mouth of harmful acid-forming bacteria.*Hydrogen
Peroxide (full stregnth, as a daily mouthwash works wonders and oxygenates
gum tissue.

Very important is to switch to an all natural toothpaste (such as
 *Tom's of Maine* baking soda toothpaste. It is sold in most supermarkets.

Avoid sugary foods and white flour (disastrous for teeth and gums!). These
foods result in plaque build-up and acid-producing bacteria thrive on
them..

I've had excellent results with all of these methods (persevere!).

A lot of bone loss is due to pockets of bacteria lodged under the gum line
in hard to reach areas. Hydrogen Peroxide penetrates gum tissue really
well, but using a water pick to irrigate deep below the gum line (*with
plain water!) is a good idea.

Lisette Gagne



Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

I've stopped my gum disease cold with C., coQ10, religious flossing,
brushing twice a day with a Braun vibrating toothbrush and using a
small bottle with a tiny metal tip with my antibiotic rinse so I can
direct it into the worse pockets.  No dentist told me what to
do....they just wanted to operate.  I said NO!   They were fairly
amazed to see my progress but never asked what I did to get there. I
also take calcium for bones and a bunch of other stuff for
Fibromyalgia.  Just had a bone density done in my pelvis and hips
which was normal!  I was quite relieved since I had my ovaries removed
at age 37, 20 years ago.    I exercise, take Premarin (usually), and
calcium.  It is very gratifying to see efforts at health and
prevention pay off!  Barbara

Quote:

>Selah,
>I don't know whether gum disease is any different, but how about this
>one: A local dentist here was amazed when a patient who was facing bone
>replacement surgery (due to radiation melting it away) showed up with her
>jawbone rebuilt. She was using calcium supplementation. It worked, she
>avoided surgery!

>Use the right calcium with other minerals (magnesium, boron, etc.) to
>increase absorption.

>I've stopped my bleeding gums that were due to gum disease.
>Try it! What have you got to lose.

>Bob H.


>> Anyone have any suggestions for alternative treatments for bone loss caused
>> by calculus buildup? (The teeth were recently cleaned). One dentist suggested
>> co-enzyme q-10, vitamin c and one other thing (which I don't remember).

>> Would be interested in hearing about anyone who was able to reverse this
>> condition using nutritional methods.



Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

BTW Barbara, I do not treat perio with surgery.  Most perio will
respond without it.  When I was in dental school, one older instructor
talked about how some patients would always have problems even after
routine treatment.  It would always be THAT person that you would see
over and over after an extraction, root canal, etc., with
complications.  He described these patients as having PPP syndrome
(P*** Poor Protoplasm).  Part of the reason that this group of
patients has problems is their overall health--smokers, diabetics,
lupus, and I am sure people with very inadequate nutrition.  If you
have always had adequate nutrition, I would relate your victory over
gum disease to the flossing, brushing, and "picking", not to your
supplements.  That is my exact treatment regimen after scaling.  You
have in effect worked on your own non-surgical perio treatment.  Early
to moderate cases of perio respond very well to this and do not
usually need surgery.  Advanced cases will not heal with this alone
and I refer these to the periodontist.

Respectfully,
SWF DDS



Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Quote:

> and are rich in vitamin C which helps the body utilize Calcium.
> *When gums are infected it leads to bone loss.To prevent bone loss get
> your gums in shape/ biting into fresh citrus fruits (even lemons) tones
> the gums.*The fruit must be totally fresh because many healing enzymes are
> lost from exposure to air.

Biting into fresh citrus and soak you teeth in ACID is supposed to be
good for you?  I have seen people that sucked lemons with a mouthful of
eroded teeth.  Where did you take your nutrition 101?

Quote:
> Very important is to switch to an all natural toothpaste (such as
>  *Tom's of Maine* baking soda toothpaste. It is sold in most supermarkets.

If you look up the periodontal journals, you'll find that the so-called
"natural toothpastes" are really not superior, if not inferior, to your
every day toothpaste. These findings are based on scientific methods
instead of wild recommendations from some homeopathic recipe.

Doug Lin dds



Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Hello Barbara,
        Congratulations on your success with gum disease. I was
wondering if your would post the ingredients to your antibiotic rinse
and tell us where to get the bottle with the "tiny metal tip.".
Thank  you.

wayne

Quote:

> I've stopped my gum disease cold with C., coQ10, religious flossing,
> brushing twice a day with a Braun vibrating toothbrush and using a
> small bottle with a tiny metal tip with my antibiotic rinse so I can
> direct it into the worse pockets.  No dentist told me what to
> do....they just wanted to operate.  I said NO!   They were fairly
> amazed to see my progress but never asked what I did to get there. I
> also take calcium for bones and a bunch of other stuff for
> Fibromyalgia.  Just had a bone density done in my pelvis and hips
> which was normal!  I was quite relieved since I had my ovaries removed
> at age 37, 20 years ago.    I exercise, take Premarin (usually), and
> calcium.  It is very gratifying to see efforts at health and
> prevention pay off!  Barbara


> >Selah,
> >I don't know whether gum disease is any different, but how about this
> >one: A local dentist here was amazed when a patient who was facing bone
> >replacement surgery (due to radiation melting it away) showed up with her
> >jawbone rebuilt. She was using calcium supplementation. It worked, she
> >avoided surgery!

> >Use the right calcium with other minerals (magnesium, boron, etc.) to
> >increase absorption.

> >I've stopped my bleeding gums that were due to gum disease.
> >Try it! What have you got to lose.

> >Bob H.


> >> Anyone have any suggestions for alternative treatments for bone loss caused
> >> by calculus buildup? (The teeth were recently cleaned). One dentist suggested
> >> co-enzyme q-10, vitamin c and one other thing (which I don't remember).

> >> Would be interested in hearing about anyone who was able to reverse this
> >> condition using nutritional methods.



Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Most all American's are Calcium deficent and are lossing bone mass at an
alarming rate. Also arthritis is a calcium defiecent ailment. Calcium
supplements are only absorbed at 10 to 15% and calcium from milk and other
foods is not adaquate!  What really works well is Coral-Caclium from
Okinawa. It is in the Ionic form which is almost 100% bioavailable. It
also has magnesium and other trace elements.
Good health to everyone
Jerry Galusha



Fri, 12 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Quote:

>Respectfully,
>SWF DDS


Quote:
>BTW Barbara, I do not treat perio with surgery.  Most perio will
>respond without it.  When I was in dental school, one older instructor
>talked about how some patients would always have problems even after
>routine treatment.  It would always be THAT person that you would see
>over and over after an extraction, root canal, etc., with
>complications.  He described these patients as having PPP syndrome
>(P*** Poor Protoplasm).  Part of the reason that this group of
>patients has problems is their overall health--smokers, diabetics,
>lupus, and I am sure people with very inadequate nutrition.  If you
>have always had adequate nutrition, I would relate your victory over
>gum disease to the flossing, brushing, and "picking", not to your
>supplements.  That is my exact treatment regimen after scaling.  You
>have in effect worked on your own non-surgical perio treatment.  Early
>to moderate cases of perio respond very well to this and do not
>usually need surgery.  Advanced cases will not heal with this alone
>and I refer these to the periodontist.

Look...I've been advocating aggressive use of a modified end-tufted
tooth brush to control those {*filter*} pockets.  Sure, there's been one
significant response...and we decided "aggressive" meant gentle use
of that brush on an as needed basis, but make those pockets bleed
themselves clean :-)

Now Steve is stating that home-care (yes, home-care) really _is_ a
significant factor in perio health, and that it can transcend
mainstream logic suggesting invasive surgical proceedures.

There are some buzz-words here that should be more carefully
defined.  For example, when a dentist talks of "bone loss", is he
talking about loss of that dense material we usually think of when
gnawing on a chicken bone, or that spongy filamentous sinus like web
of structural material?  How does the concept of "pocket-depth" vary
with age (recall the "long in the tooth" thread appearing somewhere
in Internet space, in the recent past)?

I'm trying to keep in mind, that the schools teach methods based on
Bell curve statistics...the average patient's conditions :-)

Is there anyone left here, that can expand on Steve's post?




Fri, 12 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Quote:

> >Respectfully,
> >SWF DDS

> >BTW Barbara, I do not treat perio with surgery.  Most perio will
> >respond without it.  When I was in dental school, one older instructor
> >talked about how some patients would always have problems even after
> >routine treatment.  It would always be THAT person that you would see
> >over and over after an extraction, root canal, etc., with
> >complications.  He described these patients as having PPP syndrome
> >(P*** Poor Protoplasm).  Part of the reason that this group of
> >patients has problems is their overall health--smokers, diabetics,
> >lupus, and I am sure people with very inadequate nutrition.  If you
> >have always had adequate nutrition, I would relate your victory over
> >gum disease to the flossing, brushing, and "picking", not to your
> >supplements.  That is my exact treatment regimen after scaling.  You
> >have in effect worked on your own non-surgical perio treatment.  Early
> >to moderate cases of perio respond very well to this and do not
> >usually need surgery.  Advanced cases will not heal with this alone
> >and I refer these to the periodontist.

> Look...I've been advocating aggressive use of a modified end-tufted
> tooth brush to control those {*filter*} pockets.  Sure, there's been one
> significant response...and we decided "aggressive" meant gentle use
> of that brush on an as needed basis, but make those pockets bleed
> themselves clean :-)

> Now Steve is stating that home-care (yes, home-care) really _is_ a
> significant factor in perio health, and that it can transcend
> mainstream logic suggesting invasive surgical proceedures.

> There are some buzz-words here that should be more carefully
> defined.  For example, when a dentist talks of "bone loss", is he
> talking about loss of that dense material we usually think of when
> gnawing on a chicken bone, or that spongy filamentous sinus like web
> of structural material?  How does the concept of "pocket-depth" vary
> with age (recall the "long in the tooth" thread appearing somewhere
> in Internet space, in the recent past)?

> I'm trying to keep in mind, that the schools teach methods based on
> Bell curve statistics...the average patient's conditions :-)

> Is there anyone left here, that can expand on Steve's post?



Bone loss can mean different things to different people, however with
perio, it means the height of the alveolar bone, not bone density.  
This is the spongy bone that supports the teeth.  It is easily visible
on X-rays and "should" be within a couple of mm of the Cemental-Enamel
Junction.
The pocket depth should always be 3mm or less and should not bleed
upon probing (gently).  It is possible to have significant bone loss
and not have abnormal pocket depths.  These cases are the "long in the
tooth" ones.  The bone and gingiva have receded to expose the root
surface.  When the "bone loss"  (height of alveolar bone) has gone
below 1/2 of the length of the root, or below the furcation of a
multi-rooted tooth, it is severe and likely to end up with an
extraction.  It is possible to have very little, if any, recession and
bone loss with age.  I am 43 and have very good pocket depths and no
exposed root surfaces, but I have flossed and brushed well for the
last 23 of those years.  When someone does not do this until they are
already 40 or more some damage has obviously occured.

Regards,
Steve



Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 Alternative Treatment for Bone Loss?

Quote:

> >Respectfully,
> >SWF DDS

> >BTW Barbara, I do not treat perio with surgery.  Most perio will
> >respond without it.  When I was in dental school, one older instructor
> >talked about how some patients would always have problems even after
> >routine treatment.  It would always be THAT person that you would see
> >over and over after an extraction, root canal, etc., with
> >complications.  He described these patients as having PPP syndrome
> >(P*** Poor Protoplasm).  Part of the reason that this group of
> >patients has problems is their overall health--smokers, diabetics,
> >lupus, and I am sure people with very inadequate nutrition.  If you
> >have always had adequate nutrition, I would relate your victory over
> >gum disease to the flossing, brushing, and "picking", not to your
> >supplements.  That is my exact treatment regimen after scaling.  You
> >have in effect worked on your own non-surgical perio treatment.  Early
> >to moderate cases of perio respond very well to this and do not
> >usually need surgery.  Advanced cases will not heal with this alone
> >and I refer these to the periodontist.

> Look...I've been advocating aggressive use of a modified end-tufted
> tooth brush to control those {*filter*} pockets.  Sure, there's been one
> significant response...and we decided "aggressive" meant gentle use
> of that brush on an as needed basis, but make those pockets bleed
> themselves clean :-)

> Now Steve is stating that home-care (yes, home-care) really _is_ a
> significant factor in perio health, and that it can transcend
> mainstream logic suggesting invasive surgical proceedures.

> There are some buzz-words here that should be more carefully
> defined.  For example, when a dentist talks of "bone loss", is he
> talking about loss of that dense material we usually think of when
> gnawing on a chicken bone, or that spongy filamentous sinus like web
> of structural material?  How does the concept of "pocket-depth" vary
> with age (recall the "long in the tooth" thread appearing somewhere
> in Internet space, in the recent past)?

> I'm trying to keep in mind, that the schools teach methods based on
> Bell curve statistics...the average patient's conditions :-)

> Is there anyone left here, that can expand on Steve's post?



I too, have had my dentist say, "I don't know what you're doing,
but keep on doing it."  He said he had never seen the jawbone
start closing back in on the teeth once it had started growing
away.  I figure it probably more the CoQ10 than the Calcium
Supplement.  Of course, these are both just a drop in the bucket,
to a complete program for reversing osteoporosis as outlined in
dr alan Gaby's book, "Reversing Osteoprosis".  Dr Gaby is currently
editing the the "Townsend Letter for Doctors", as I see some
occassionaly posts his reviews to this group.

TW
--
TW Morey            |     If you can't love your enemies,
Flanders, NJ        |     at least be kind to your friends.
                    |    



Sun, 14 Feb 1999 03:00:00 GMT
 
 [ 15 post ] 

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