Attention New York LD sufferers 
Author Message
 Attention New York LD sufferers

At a time when Dr. Burrascano is being tried by the OPMC, with "evidence" from
the records of SATISFIED and HEALTHIER patients, isn't it time that we start to
complain against those doctors that have nearly destroyed our lives by denying
our Borreliosis (Lyme) and/or treatment?
As many know, there are now quite a few complaints against Allen Steere, MD in
Mass.
What about others?
I urge patients everywhere, who have been hurt by New York doctors to complain
to the OPMC.  If insurers can complain, why don't we?
For example, has anyone been hurt by the likes of:

Ray Dattwyler, MD?
Peter Welsh, MD?
Tom Rush, MD?

Just to name a few....
If these outspoken doctors have hurt you, it is your right to complain.
Take a moment...it just may make a difference.



Thu, 24 Apr 2003 03:00:00 GMT
 Attention New York LD sufferers


Quote:
> At a time when Dr. Burrascano is being tried by the OPMC,

with "evidence" from
Quote:
> the records of SATISFIED and HEALTHIER patients, isn't it time that
we start to
> complain against those doctors that have nearly destroyed our lives
by denying
> our Borreliosis (Lyme) and/or treatment?
> As many know, there are now quite a few complaints against Allen
Steere, MD in
> Mass.
> What about others?
> I urge patients everywhere, who have been hurt by New York doctors to
complain
> to the OPMC.  If insurers can complain, why don't we?
> For example, has anyone been hurt by the likes of:

> Ray Dattwyler, MD?
> Peter Welsh, MD?
> Tom Rush, MD?

> Just to name a few....
> If these outspoken doctors have hurt you, it is your right to
complain.
> Take a moment...it just may make a difference.

Here is a repost on this topic including a couple of replies:
Here is a previous thread on complaints against Lenny Sigal. You KNOW
that I am NOT a fan of his (nor of Dattwyler's). Of course, I am less a
fan of sinking to THEIR level. It sends the wrong message.And it is
simply wrong. I DO encourage any legitimate complaints and will post
seperately on that on this thread:

Though I am not a patient of Dr. Leonard Sigal, I am
in the process of filing a complaint against him to the NJ Board of
Medical Examiners.

I would like to clearly state that I have chosen to do this
not as a means of revenge, but rather because this man
has caused great harm to many Lyme sufferers not only
in NJ but throughout this country.

It is a tragedy that the insurance industry can literally buy
people to agree with them. In my opinion, Sigal, is one of these such
people.

The tobacco industry was able to cover the truth about
cigarettes for years because they were paying people (doctors,
researchers, etc.)  who had no conscience, to make false claims
concerning cigarettes.

We should not be surprised by Sigal and others who do the same for the
insurance industry on behalf of Lyme disease.

It may be appalling, but it is reality. There are human beings in this
world who operate with little concern for their fellow man.

I pray that Sigal will have a change of heart as Paul, the apostle of
our Lord Jesus, did, but if he doesn't, actions must be taken to
prevent others from becoming debilitated as a result of his behavior.

                    sincerest,  josh
Josh: With all due respect to the sincerity of your feelings,
and your belief in the righteousness of your cause, and
notwithstanding the fact that I agree that Sigal has harmed
many, this is an abuse of the complaint process and a clearly
spurious complaint that will be dismissed as those against dr
steere from patients who had no contact with him.

Does it reflect well on us that we are sinking to THEIR level
and abusing the medical complaint process???  Does this not
concede the legitimacy of this tactic and effectively place our
endor{*filter*}t on this type of misuse of the complaint process
against our LLMDs???

By doing so we surrender the claim that doing so is wrong. When
our doctors are disciplined and they are not, our complaints
about the unfairness of the process are simply the cries of sore losers.

What do you possibly hope to accomplish???

I disagree with this tactic. Used for us or against us it is
WRONG!

Respectfully Stating My Opinion,

joel

Joel M.Shmukler, Esquire
Director, LymeCURE 2000

 I do encourage anyone with a legitimate complaint under the
applicable rules and regulations of the relevant jurisdiction,
to file their complaints and pursue them.

I suggest that you check before filing though what is and what
is not grounds for a complaint.

I am using the word complaint in the legal sense, as in formal
complaint--not in the sense of we all have gripes!!!

If you think something oughta be grounds in your jurisdiction
but isn't, then work through the political process to change
that. But remember--the sword has two edges--what is good for
the goose is good for the gander--what is grounds to get steere
or sigal is grounds to get orens and burrascano too.

joel

Joel M.Shmukler, Esquire
Director, LymeCURE 2000

SURPRISE JOEL:
I agree with you!!!!!  Helen

Empty~Nest~Cape~Cod
Helen~Jim~Mariah

Joel is actually giving some sound advice here gang and he's doing it
without those danged ducks!  :-) You might want to listen up......

<<Does it reflect well on us that we are sinking to THEIR level and
abusing the medical complaint process???>>

No, it does not.......

<<Does this not concede the legitimacy of this tactic and effectively
place our endor{*filter*}t on this type of misuse of the complaint process
against our LLMDs???>>

Yes, it does....that's why we cannot engage in this type of behavior.

<<By doing so we surrender the claim that doing so is wrong.>>

Absolutely!  And we cannot afford to surrender any ground.....

<<When our doctors are disciplined and they are not, our complaints
about the unfairness of the process are simply the cries of sore
losers.>>

Our complaints are cries of injustice and we must keep them so.....The
only way to do that is to avoid turning them into whinings of pettiness
by stooping to the same level.  We cannot become that which we are
against....If we do....the opposition has won.  Remember....if it is
wrong for them to do it.....then it is wrong for us too!

Only those lyme patients who have been seen or had their cases reviewed
by any of the opposing camp and were dismissed as not having lyme but
later were found to indeed be infected with LD can legitimately file
complaints.  They are the only ones that will be taken seriously.  The
rest will be scoffed at as wild imaginings and filed in the circular
bin.

Frankly, I believe there are enough legitimate complaints out there to
level against our enemies.....we just need to allow the folk who are in
the best position to do this, do so!

Debi

Allthough I am of the attitude that this man MUST be stopped in his
tracks but......How can someone sign a complaint against a doctor
they've never seen? I don't understand....Wouldn't that be looked at as
malicious? And someone unstable with a vendetta? Couldn't this man have
grounds for a charge of harassment and slander against this person?
Sorry just asking because it didn't make sense to me...Thanks
--
Joel M. Shmukler, Esquire, Director LYMECURE

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Thu, 24 Apr 2003 03:00:00 GMT
 Attention New York LD sufferers


Quote:
> At a time when Dr. Burrascano is being tried by the OPMC,

with "evidence" from

Quote:
> the records of SATISFIED and HEALTHIER patients, isn't it time that
we start to
> complain against those doctors that have nearly destroyed our lives
by denying
> our Borreliosis (Lyme) and/or treatment?
> As many know, there are now quite a few complaints against Allen
Steere, MD in
> Mass.
> What about others?
> I urge patients everywhere, who have been hurt by New York doctors to
complain
> to the OPMC.  If insurers can complain, why don't we?
> For example, has anyone been hurt by the likes of:

> Ray Dattwyler, MD?
> Peter Welsh, MD?
> Tom Rush, MD?

> Just to name a few....
> If these outspoken doctors have hurt you, it is your right to
complain.
> Take a moment...it just may make a difference.

I hope that you understand that I am not against filing legitimate
complaints against steere. It is the spurious ones that I think are
wrong--whether against steere or DR BURRASCANO.

I gave one Lyme activist some advice on how I would proceed without
subjecting myself to liability.  HE actually made some of the changes I
suggested--limiting the call for complaints in the more recent action
alerts about the investigations of steere to people who had direct
contact with him and his clinic--eliminating the call for complaints
from those who had experienced doctors 'under the expressed influence
of dr steere.'

Here is the advice cut n pasted from my correspondence on this topic:

Ideally I would create a website with links to each state's medical
board (for convenience) and under each state I would include what is
grounds for discipline (and I will bet ten billion dollars that no
state provides that the 'influence of dr steere's ideas on other
doctors or medical centers' is grounds for discipline. Not in the
United States. Not yet. Thank god!!!!)

People are so prepared to throw the baby of FREEDOM out with the
bathwater of their personal grudges. They don't realize that by making
the same type of complaints about dr steere that they automatically
validate the claims against dr burrascano (IF any ccomplaints actually
exist what with all the claimed secrecy and lack of details provided to
us as we are asked to BLINDLY support the guy).

This is very dangerous.

No problem with making it easy for people to make complaints, by
providing links and sample forms. No problem with helping those with
LEGITIMATE AND SUBSTANTIAL complaints against any doctor to
substantiate and document their claims. But I don't think it is at all
helpful to encourage spurious complaints. In fact, it is both morally
and legally wrong AND likely to be counterproductive.

And it is just foolish to call for complaints BY NAME against any
doctor since that opens one up to liability (defamation actions) and
the defense costs alone could bankrupt Lyme groups or worse
individuals!!! And you pay for your own lawyer win or lose in most
cases in most jurisdictions in the US!!!!

So with a bit of guile, it is possible to respond as my rough letter
suggests by with a wink and a nod and for those smart enough to read
between the lines, accomplish the same thing and shield oneself and/or
one's group from liability.

It is ABSURD to call for complaints about 'dr steere's expressed
influence on other doctors and medical centers' for one thing. This
will result in MANY spurious complaints.

It is also WRONG that what is needed is 'many complaints.' What is
needed is one (or more) LEGITIMATE complaints! Complaints about other
people believing dr steere's bad ideas are ridiculous!

Also: I think it is a HUGE mistake to conduct this 'campaign' this way.
I told John that I would have written a letter saying something like
(this is a very rough draft off the top of my head):

"As you know LLMDs are under attack. (insert link to FAIM website and
Cheryl's activism site etc).  We believe that NO doctor should be
prosecuted for treating Lyme according to one legitimate school of
thought instead of another.

We recognize that there is a sharp division of opinion about the
diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease. We also recognize that there
is evidence to support the viewpoints of both 'schools of thought,'
call them the Burrascano school and the Steere school.  We insist that
it is our right to decide with our doctors what treatment we receive.

The precedent set by such prosecutions could serve to limit treatment
choices for other diseases and to invade an area of medical decision
making traditionally reserved to the doctor and the patient, without
interference by the STATE. The precedent of STATE mandated courses of
treatment is dangerous and frightening!

Almost any illness that one can think of has been treated differently
by different practioners. Singling out Lyme treatment for selective
prosecution smacks more of politics than medicine. We don't want our
health care politicized.

While we oppose the prosecutions of LLMDs, we do NOT want to eliminate
the system of doctor discipline. If anything, the grounds for
disciplining doctors is TOO NARROW not OVERBROAD. State licensing
boards stand as an important safeguard of doctor competence and
protection for patient rights and interests.

While we stongly OPPOSE the current investigations and prosecutions of
Lyme doctors and feel that they are an abuse of the system, we want to
make people aware of the grounds for disciplining doctors and the
methods for doing so.

State by State Listing of Grounds for Medical Discipline along with
Links for contact information for each state medical board and a sample
complaint package with suggestions."

I would provide links state by state to the proper authorities to make
complaints to, and to make it easy for people. I would also provide on
a state by state basis a summary or copy of the actual grounds for
discipline to deter the filing of spurious complaints.

I would NOT call for complaints about a particular doctor by NAME. I
would NOT call for doctors to be disciplined for non disciplinable
offenses. For example, believe it or not, malpractice (which is tough
to prove) is not always (or even often) a grounds for discipline!!!
Even serial/multiple malpractice is not usually a grounds for
discipline!

Nor are general statements like "Do no Harm."

Dr Steere is correct--he WILL be vindicated, and he IS the victim of
organized harassment. The posters IMHO are WRONG and once again just
don't know what they are talking about! They may feel honestly
aggrieved and I sympathize with them and empathasize with them, and
acknowledge the shoddy treatment they have received.

I too HATE dr steere, dr sigal and consider them the antichrist(s) and
I HATE their minions too at Yale, Stoneybrook, HUP, Mayo, Cleveland
Clinic, Hopkins etc....

However, IF dr steere is smart he will fight the complaints and then
come after the Lyme 'activists' who organized the campaign against him.
At the very least he has grounds for filing for defamation, slander,
libel, tortious interference, {*filter*}, intentional infliction of
emotional distress, etc.

He might not win but he could put lots of groups and individuals out of
business by forcing them to defend. And in the US the rule in most
jurisdictions is that each side pays their own legal costs so even if
we WON, we could all be bankrupted in the process!

And when he beats the complaints this will become more evidence of how
over the line the Lyme community is; how nutsy and radical; how poorly
organized; how hysterical....it will serve as proof of what they accuse
us of!

AND it will serve to get their backs up and may engender a backlash as
was commented on in the posts. [THIS WAS WRITTEN LAST YEAR BEFORE THE
BACKLASH...]

NOW don't get me wrong--I am NOT saying that we shouldn't do this in
some fashion (such as I suggested above). I would try to collect and
document the couple of legitimate complaints against steere--where he
lied to patients about test results, or failed to disclose
contamination in his lab and did not inform patients with unreliable
test results of the problem, where he ignored positive tests, where he
relied exclusively on negative tests...

Cases where he refused to treat for more than 2-4 weeks are not
malpractice (legally) and they are not grounds for discipline!!! That
is THE STANDARD OF CARE that MOST doctors follow and agree on and the
OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of literature supports! Failing to provide more
is NOT grounds for discipline!!!

See part of the problem is that we need to recognize that we are in the
minority when it comes to literature, doctors etc. So we are saying "We
are RIGHT and the rest of the world is crazy!" But do you expect the
rest of the world to respond by saying "Oh yeah, we should discipline
ourselves???"

I also agree that we should NOT sink to their level. How can we say
what I said in my sample letter when we want to abuse the system the
same way? By doing so we are saying not that what they are doing is
wrong, we are endorsing their actions! Instead we are just whining that
they are the majority and are being a tyrannical majority. But if we
were in the majority we would do the same thing?

I don't think the poster, whether Pat(sy) Smith or not, was saying that
the complaints were LIES. I think the poster was saying that the
complaints are complaints in the human sense but not in the legal
sense. Not every wrong has a remedy and this is not the proper remedy
for the wrong in question.

Think for a second: what if Dr Burrascano is WRONG??? Should he be
disciplined for being WRONG? Lots of docs have been wrong about lots of
things--how many thought Epstein-Barr caused chronic fatigue??? or that
ulcers were NOT caused by a bacteria called H pylori?

Dr B has a rational basis in science and medicine for what he is doing
but honestly little to 'prove' that he is right. So for the sake of
argument, what if it turns out that ...

read more »



Thu, 24 Apr 2003 03:00:00 GMT
 Attention New York LD sufferers
To report physicians to the NYS OPMC please go to
www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/opmc/opmc.htm


Thu, 24 Apr 2003 03:00:00 GMT
 Attention New York LD sufferers


Quote:
> To report physicians to the NYS OPMC please go to
> www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/opmc/opmc.htm

So plunge on ahead and keep on sending out those mixed messages huh? Go
ahead and legitimize the process by which dr orens lost his license and
dr burrascano will too...THAT is good thinking...sheesh!
--
Joel M. Shmukler, Esquire, Director LYMECURE

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Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:41:32 GMT
 Attention New York LD sufferers
Of course I mean all LEGITIMATE complaints.  I agree with Joel, in that
complaints that have no substance merely clog the system.
The OPMC is there to protect against medical misconduct.  If there are patients
who have been denied diagnosis and treatment, and have a legitimate case, it is
their duty to complain so as to protect others.
I know of no actual complaints, formal or otherwise, against the doctors I
listed in my previous post.  


Quote:
(Mas74) writes:
>At a time when Dr. Burrascano is being tried by the OPMC, with "evidence"
>from
>the records of SATISFIED and HEALTHIER patients, isn't it time that we start
>to
>complain against those doctors that have nearly destroyed our lives by
>denying
>our Borreliosis (Lyme) and/or treatment?
>As many know, there are now quite a few complaints against Allen Steere, MD
>in
>Mass.
>What about others?
>I urge patients everywhere, who have been hurt by New York doctors to
>complain
>to the OPMC.  If insurers can complain, why don't we?
>For example, has anyone been hurt by the likes of:

>Ray Dattwyler, MD?
>Peter Welsh, MD?
>Tom Rush, MD?

>Just to name a few....
>If these outspoken doctors have hurt you, it is your right to complain.
>Take a moment...it just may make a difference.



Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:25:07 GMT
 Attention New York LD sufferers


Quote:
> At a time when Dr. Burrascano is being tried by the OPMC,

with "evidence" from
Quote:
> the records of SATISFIED and HEALTHIER patients, isn't it time that
we start to
> complain against those doctors that have nearly destroyed our lives
by denying
> our Borreliosis (Lyme) and/or treatment?
> As many know, there are now quite a few complaints against Allen
Steere, MD in
> Mass.
> What about others?
> I urge patients everywhere, who have been hurt by New York doctors to

complain

I consulted Dr. Rush in desparation, after having 17 weeks of
treatment, but IV and oral.  I was told I was cured but was so so sick
and scared to death that I was going to die.  My primary suggested I
see an infectious disease doctor.  After seeing me for about 20
minutes, Dr. Rush told me I didnt presently have lyme, wasnt sure I
ever did.  I left there crying and hesterical because I couldnt get any
answers.  He had the nerve to write a report to my primary physcian
that I had no evidence of every having Lyme and stated that I really
had a pyschiaritc problem.  Because of him I suffered another l0 months
untreated going to doctor to doctor until I found one to help.

Quote:
> to the OPMC.  If insurers can complain, why don't we?
> For example, has anyone been hurt by the likes of:

> Ray Dattwyler, MD?
> Peter Welsh, MD?
> Tom Rush, MD?

> Just to name a few....
> If these outspoken doctors have hurt you, it is your right to
complain.
> Take a moment...it just may make a difference.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:00:00 GMT
 Attention New York LD sufferers

Quote:



> > At a time when Dr. Burrascano is being tried by the OPMC,
> with "evidence" from
> > the records of SATISFIED and HEALTHIER patients, isn't it time that
> we start to
> > complain against those doctors that have nearly destroyed our lives
> by denying
> > our Borreliosis (Lyme) and/or treatment?
> > As many know, there are now quite a few complaints against Allen
> Steere, MD in
> > Mass.
> > What about others?
> > I urge patients everywhere, who have been hurt by New York doctors
to
> complain

> I consulted Dr. Rush in desparation, after having 17 weeks of
> treatment, but IV and oral.  I was told I was cured but was so so sick
> and scared to death that I was going to die.  My primary suggested I
> see an infectious disease doctor.  After seeing me for about 20
> minutes, Dr. Rush told me I didnt presently have lyme, wasnt sure I
> ever did.  I left there crying and hesterical because I couldnt get
any
> answers.  He had the nerve to write a report to my primary physcian
> that I had no evidence of every having Lyme and stated that I really
> had a pyschiaritc problem.  Because of him I suffered another l0
months
> untreated going to doctor to doctor until I found one to help.

Rushkiller: I am sorry to hear your terrible experience. Unfortunately,
it is not an uncommon experience which is why when people ask, I advise
that they AVOID the ID(iot) doctors in the first place. [see The Flat
Earth Society
http://www2.lymenet.org/domino/flash.nsf/3e157dfbb6c018d78525679f0001026
0/fd1e7a0b4ac2d9ac85256778007f9ae2?OpenDocument and Top 10 ID(iot)
reasons you don't have Lyme:
http://www2.lymenet.org/domino/flash.nsf/3e157dfbb6c018d78525679f0001026
0/d81755a4237350e18525678d0057b548?OpenDocument and see: Self limiting
Flat Earth Circular 'Logic':
http://www2.lymenet.org/domino/flash.nsf/3e157dfbb6c018d78525679f0001026
0/2f3fdb06d34ad937852567910045edb9?OpenDocument]

HOWEVER, it certainly is NOT grounds for discipline that based on the
prevailing standards of care and treatment that an ID doc takes the
position that someone having already received 17 weeks of treatment
does not require further treatment. Unfortunately that IS the
overwhelming view of most doctors and is reflected in textbooks and
articles and treatment guidelines.

Nor is being rude, arrogant, dismissive and unsympathetic a grounds for
disciplining physicians (or lots of them would be in big trouble).

As poor as the treatment you received may have been, and I for one
agree with you that this sort of approach by ID docs is wrong and very
harmful, based on what you have said, it is very unlikely to constitute
grounds for discipline.

To familiarize yourself with what are grounds for discipline please see:
http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/opmc/main.htm

Sorry to hear of your negative experience. I have heard almost EXACTLY
the same stories from those seeking help and LLMD referrals too many
times to count. Luckily I have been able to save numerous people the
bother by referring them to LLMDs and advising that they simply
cancel/skip the ID(iot) appointment altogether--and I quickly summarize
what the ID(iot) will tell them: You probably NEVER had Lyme in the
first place since it is so waaaay overdiagnosed and since it is waaaay
overtreated too you have already received more than adequate treatment
for this self limiting disease which is easily cured. You either now
have FMS, CFS or need to see a shrink but no way do you need more abx.
If you ever had Lyme you are already cured and since you're not cured
you never had Lyme. Self limiting flat earth circular logic...
--
Joel M. Shmukler, Esquire, Director LYMECURE

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Before you buy.



Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:00:00 GMT
 
 [ 10 post ] 

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