Immune System Breakdown 
Author Message
 Immune System Breakdown

Lyme Literate Friends,

Some short history first.  I was diagnosed with Lyme in 1995 and have
always been one of the "lucky" ones who get positive western blots when
I'm sick and they show improvement (have even been negative once or
twice) when I'm feeling better (2 short remissions in the last 3 years).

I recently asked my LLMD if she believed it's possible that my immune
system stop creating such a plethora of antibodies and I start testing
negative even though I'm still sick (this hasn't happened yet - thanks
be to God).  She gave me an unqualified YES.

I'm looking for thoughts on whether the bacterial war breaks down the
immune system (and therefore no more antibodies), or the antibiotics, or
both?  What are the schools of thought on this?

Thanks,

Cindi



Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Immune System Breakdown



Quote:

>I'm looking for thoughts on whether the bacterial war breaks down the
>immune system (and therefore no more antibodies), or the antibiotics, or
>both?  What are the schools of thought on this?

>Thanks,

>Cindi

Just as my own two cents, Cindi, I personally believe that you would
continue to test positive. (Although if you did test negative, you
probably wouldn't be infection free -- even if you're ever fully
cured, there will always be residual antibodies.)

On the immune system issue, I personally think that your "antibody
system" would not get "tired" from overwork, thus giving out. On the
other hand, I do think that persistent antibiotic use *could*
contribute to this.

Don


http://cassia.jerseycape.net



Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Immune System Breakdown

Questions and thinking out loud.  I have always since childhood had allergies

that went untreated (because school of thought was kids grow out of it).
I had tonsillitis all the time.  Don't remember taking a lot of meds as a
kid except baby aspirin (yes I know a no no now but not then).  I was
24 before I actually started receiving desensitizing injections.  First time
was for 2 year with shots having preservatives.  Became allergic to the
shots probably due to preservatives plus end points changed.  Stopped
the shots.  Started again with shots minus the preservatives and took
about 1-1/2 years.  Then 3rd time about 2 years. And last time 1/2
year.  Seems like every time I tested it became more and more difficult
to find end point (the point at which some dilution of allergen that
makes you sick will also clear you of the same symptoms).  It got to
the point we put inhalants in 1 vial, molds and fungus in 1 vial and
the last time I started doing foods in a 1 vial.  So, because it got
to be such a headache with the testing then the taking of the shots
I finally stopped.  BTW I never let person testing me tell me what
I was being tested with so in my mind I could not affect the outcome
of the testing.  The last set of shots seemed to do me the least
good, thus I stopped them.  From the early 80's thru 87 I was
sick all the time.  I would get tonsillitis, go into infection and then
be treated on/off for seems accurate 6 mos of antibiotics.  I
got so tired of being sick and tired that I finally agree to have my
tonsils removed at age 37.  (Mine not removed as a kid due to
at the time I was old enough for surgery Polio was raging and no
surgery being done unless life or death situation).

So, preceding removal of tonsils and adenoids I was sick all
the time.  Subsequent to having the removed I have only been
sick with URI type stuff 3 times, once in 96, and 2 x 97.  So,
apparently I've had Lyme for many many years but still retain
more of my mind than my LLD says most of his patients have.

This is also true for my husband who was positive on all Lyme
testing, EISA and Western Blot.  Neither one of us has tested
positive yet for the urine.  He has possibly had LD since 1969.

Would the fact that I had been through the allergy shots for so
many years have boosted, stabilized, helped my immune system
to the point that my mind was spared until late last Summer
when obvious neurological things were happening.  And, since
my s/o didn't take any allergy shots and never darkens the door
of doctor's office unless it's serious, (like throat cancer in early
90's) he just has a better immune system?  Is this why he also
retains good cognitive abilities?

Or in his case, could the radiation received for larnyx cancer have
aided in killing of some bacteria thus sparing his brain more harm.
We are at a loss as to why when we have apparently had LD for
quite some time, 20 years or more, why we retain more cognitive
abilities (still with neurological involvement in LD for both of us)
after having so long.  Or, why we apparently have not progressed
at any point to to where we could have been dx'd with LD in
the past.  Did the injections preceded by years of abx treatment
for tonsils help my LD into remission and is it possible my s/o
had a better immune system and that was aided by the radiation
therapy for cancer that kept the LD into remission.  Lots of
questions, I know.  I am thanking God for the blessings
bestowed upon both of us in that we still have good cognition
but am trying to understand how it could be that we two are
different from a large segment of the people who also have
LD for a long time undiagnosed and or untreated, i.e. the
same scenario as the two of us.  Any speculation? Or
anyone else in a similar situation that I can correspond with
and maybe try to figure out what's different so maybe a way
to think about protection against Lyme.  Just thinking out



Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Immune System Breakdown


Quote:

>Would the fact that I had been through the allergy shots for so
>many years have boosted, stabilized, helped my immune system
>to the point that my mind was spared until late last Summer
>when obvious neurological things were happening.  And, since
>my s/o didn't take any allergy shots and never darkens the door
>of doctor's office unless it's serious, (like throat cancer in early
>90's) he just has a better immune system?  Is this why he also
>retains good cognitive abilities?

I had some allergies as a child but they disappeared over time.  I began to get
sick in '93 and was diagnosed with CFIDS in '95 with low Natural Killer cells
and B cells.  In mid '97 my allergies just went south and I started Allegra as
I tested positive for everything. Also tested positive for LYme about the same
time.  I have started the allergy shots now.  My allergist (who does believe in
CFIDS) says the immune system breakdown allowed my allergies to take over
again.  He feels the shots MAY build up that portion of the immune system and
allow me to feel less fatigue also.  Based on your information, perhaps it will
allow my cognitive functios to improve also.
G. Copeland Cole


Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Immune System Breakdown

Quote:



> >Would the fact that I had been through the allergy shots for so
> >many years have boosted, stabilized, helped my immune system
> >to the point that my mind was spared until late last Summer
> >when obvious neurological things were happening.  And, since
> >my s/o didn't take any allergy shots and never darkens the door
> >of doctor's office unless it's serious, (like throat cancer in early
> >90's) he just has a better immune system?  Is this why he also
> >retains good cognitive abilities?

> I had some allergies as a child but they disappeared over time.  I began to get
> sick in '93 and was diagnosed with CFIDS in '95 with low Natural Killer cells
> and B cells.  In mid '97 my allergies just went south and I started Allegra as
> I tested positive for everything. Also tested positive for LYme about the same
> time.  I have started the allergy shots now.  My allergist (who does believe in
> CFIDS) says the immune system breakdown allowed my allergies to take over
> again.  He feels the shots MAY build up that portion of the immune system and
> allow me to feel less fatigue also.  Based on your information, perhaps it will
> allow my cognitive functios to improve also.
> G. Copeland Cole

Dr. Paul Duray, MD, one of the country's top immunologists/pathologists,
said:  "The more we learn about the immune system and Lyme disease, the
less we know."  He said that upon first bite, the T cells, B cells,
lymphocytes, macrophages, white cells and so on go into disarray and
cause an immunologic cascade.  This cascade may be the cause of the
lousy immune systems which so many Lyme patients now have.  We often
have lowered WBC and RBC counts (anemia of chronic infection) and in
resposne to the question, the white count can fall when on antibiotic as
can the liver enzymes rise.  Perhaps there is an immunosuppressive
response to antibiotic.  We see it alot and the patient has to stop for
a while and resume later their {*filter*}work is normal.  Kathy
--


Sun, 26 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 
 [ 5 post ] 

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