Having trouble quitting alcohol 
Author Message
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

I'm a moderate drinker, but my consumption is undoubtedly too high for
someone with HCV.  For decades I've enjoyed splitting a bottle of wine with
my wife at dinner.  It's an ingrained ritual in my marriage.  My wife likes
{*filter*} more than I do, and it would be unrealistic for her to quit
drinking at dinner to help me abstain (when she's out of town, I abstain
with no problem at all).  

An added difficulty is that I'm asymptomatic, and my recent biopsy showed
only mild inflammation, with no fibrosis.  .   Psychologically, this is an
impediment because it doesn't create the impression of imminent danger,
even though, rationally, I know better.  I know I've had HCV a decade or
more, because I was notified that I have non-A, non-B after donating {*filter*}
for a friend back in 1989 or so.

Anybody else had this problem and addressed it successfully?  I'm not too
interested in preachy responses.



Thu, 02 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Quote:
>Anybody else had this problem and addressed it successfully?  I'm not too
>interested in preachy responses.

Hi,

     How about a realistic responce?  You're very lucky that you have only mild
infiammation: Why push it!

     People who use {*filter*} and have HCV, by far, don't do well.  You just have
to deside what is more important to you.  The choice is your's:  Do you want to
live as long and healthily as possible???
Jeffrey, from Vermont



Thu, 02 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Aloha Michael,

"Moderate drinking" IS way too much for anyone with HCV.   I used to be a
moderate drinker myself, but had to give up {*filter*}, as well as many foods I
loved, in order to feel better, and to increase my chances of  living longer
feeling well.

Rituals can be *very* nice - (New Year's Eve, birthdays, whatever).  When
friends and I engage in rituals which include drinking, I  personally choose to
drink Martinelli Sparkling Cider, (very nice, I must say), or there is an
extremely tasty non-{*filter*}ic Cold Duck, which I can't think of the brand name
of (brain fog).  Both  are available in my local supermarket (along with a
couple of other non-{*filter*}ic wines I haven't tried yet).   Those with whom I
am dining continue to drink their own wines, - and we all enjoy!

A glass of any of these for you, in your favorite goblet during dinner with
your wife, I think you'll find quite tasty. Your wife, who probably loves you
very much and will want to help keep you well and alive, can enjoy her own
brand of wine.  If it's the {*filter*} "buzz" you personally are going for, I can
only say this:  {*filter*} is something you DO need to put behind you since you
have HCV,  - as all must we do with many things in life, as we grow older and
our bodies change.   Reality check, not preaching.  ;-)

Your  "added diificulty" of being asymptomatic, with mild inflammation, is
actually a great  blessing for you, and I'm sure you want to keep it that way.
You won't, using {*filter*}!

I hope this helps you, - good luck, I know it's not easy, but it can be done; I
did it too.

Leola

Quote:

> I'm a moderate drinker, but my consumption is undoubtedly too high for
> someone with HCV.  For decades I've enjoyed splitting a bottle of wine with
> my wife at dinner.  It's an ingrained ritual in my marriage.  My wife likes
> {*filter*} more than I do, and it would be unrealistic for her to quit
> drinking at dinner to help me abstain (when she's out of town, I abstain
> with no problem at all).

> An added difficulty is that I'm asymptomatic, and my recent biopsy showed
> only mild inflammation, with no fibrosis.  .   Psychologically, this is an
> impediment because it doesn't create the impression of imminent danger,
> even though, rationally, I know better.  I know I've had HCV a decade or
> more, because I was notified that I have non-A, non-B after donating {*filter*}
> for a friend back in 1989 or so.

> Anybody else had this problem and addressed it successfully?  I'm not too
> interested in preachy responses.



Thu, 02 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Hi Michael,

I can appreciate what you said and you already know the answers. If you
continue w/an entire half bottle at every dinner that has got to take it's toll
sometime.

Believe me, I am half Italian and drank wine w/dinner since I was a kid. It is
life itself. I drink a few sips every once in a while with dinner. I know I
shouldn't drink it at all just like you do too. But, big but here, it is simply
my gamble that I am taking. I mean sips too.

 Don't anybody out there say Michael in Florida is a drinking fool and it is
okay to drink with HCV. It is not!

My grandfather on his deathbed insisted on a glass at nightime. He told the
nurse/nuns that it was Christ's {*filter*} and they couldn't refuse him. I smile at
the thought. He lived a good life and died peacefully.

Anyway, where does that leave us? I don't sip more than 5 or 6 ounces every
other week or so. I have gone without for months at a time. Your ritual needs
changing or you would not have written. You know damn well it is to much.
Reduce it down by buying smaller bottles maybe. Let your wife drink most of it.
(I don't know about you but in my marriage that can be quite fun!)
Trim your drinking to a glass only. And then a little less as time goes on. A
few sips...
Maybe once your ritual is changed you will not miss the whole half of a bottle.
Cork the son of a gun and save it for later! Every other night toast your wife
with Pellegrino (water). Maybe your assumption that she would insist on wine
every night might not be correct either! Ever think of that? My wife has
surprised me in the past. Either way, reduce it down one way or the other
friend. It is an established fact that booze speeds up the deteriation of the
liver in our cases.
Good luck to you, and best to you and yours.

Michael in Florida

P.S. Don't forget to offset the damage by using vitamins and cooking.net">food supplements.
You can't stop the effects of wine , but Milk Thistle and other things are
better than a kick in the pants!



Fri, 03 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Ooooh!!! I love that stuff.  There are some good brands of that stuff.  I've
tried non-Alchohol wines before, they seem to have a taste like vinegar (at
least to me).

Dan

Quote:
>I  personally choose to drink Martinelli Sparkling Cider, (very nice, I

must say)


Fri, 03 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Gee, Alan!

     You don't hold back; do you?  BUT, YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!

Jeffrey, from Vermont



Fri, 03 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Quote:
>I know I've had HCV a decade or
>> more, because I was notified that I have non-A, non-B after donating
>> {*filter*} for a friend back in 1989 or so.

>Glad I haven't got friends like you.

Gad, Alan. I'm sure you don't mean this the way it came out.  This is
how I learned too: I donated {*filter*} in 1990 just after my father died
to replace some of the many units of {*filter*} that he was given.  I was
told "thanks, but no thanks" from the {*filter*} bank.  The letter was a
total surprise to me.

Quote:
>And if that's too preachy for you,  and you don't like it-LUMP IT!

OK... group hug everybody!!!!  (Alan, sounds like you're in a
liver-ripping mood)

I feel for a person who doesn't have his wife's full support to quit
{*filter*}.  With my husband, a drink here and there was simply not that
important to us, and it doesn't bother him that I don't drink now. I
also don't mind if he has a beer here and there.

I will admit that I know of people who would not get this support, and
in all cases, the person who would not accept the other "not drinking"
was an {*filter*}ic or close to it.  In all cases that I know of, the
partner couldn't understand dinner without wine or an evening without
drinking (and lots of it). {*filter*} was simply "required" in order to
"have a good time".

In this case, one person not drinking makes the drinking of the other
more noticeable and the other person resents it.  For a friend of
mine, diagnosis of Hep C led to divorce -- primarily over the drinking
issue.

Sad, isn't it?

Janet in Dallas (I see SUN!  WOW!)



Fri, 03 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

You got a point Alan, I took the "gloves on" approach but the one thing that
kept nagging me was the fact that he had to have a drink when his wife was
drinking.
That was how I read it too.
This could be a complicated issue as Janet mentioned. (Hi Janet, good to see ya
out there!). Christ, she said a marriage dissolved over drinking! What a
world--
He has had his feedback. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I hope he takes the
kick in the pants and does something about it. Sometimes that is the better
thing to do. Hear me Michael?

Michael in Florida



Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol



Quote:
>His wife doesn't have HCV.  She can drink what she likes.
>But IF she LOVES him,  why isn't she saying,  "Stop
>drinking! I'm worried about your health".  My wife did!

I will admit, I don't understand this either. You're right: that's
exactly the main point.  Sounds like she loves drinking more than she
loves him and that's awfully sad (and there's probably nothing he can
do about that).

(*hugs*)
Janet in Dallas



Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Hey gang!

I just have to comment on this one!  First of all, he has hepatitis not his
wife.  If she chooses to drink - so be it.  Her drinking is not damaging his
liver.  Using her is just an excuse.  Personally in light of all we know
about the liver, drinking and hepatitis, I think that only a fool or an
{*filter*}ic would continue drinking if he/she knew they were hep C positive.
I recommed alcholics annononomus to anyone who can't stop drinking - for
what ever reason.  Fortunately for me, I haven't had a drink of booze since
1985.  I found out I was hep c positive two years ago.   And it still takes
those silly meeting to keep me sober.  What's the guy have to lose?  Only
his liver!

Keep on believing in believing

Jimbob



Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Yep, I got some feedback all right.  Some of it was quite useful, e.g., try
AA (an option I had not known was available to moderate drinkers); try
non-{*filter*}ic wines during social occasions, including dinner (others were
skeptical about this approach).  These are the kinds of specific advice I
was hoping for.  Thanks.

I also got some sermons, and some angry ones too.  These weren't useful at
all.  Especially the outburst from the vitriolic Palmer, who actually
suggested that by donating {*filter*} before I knew about my infection, I was
deliberately setting about to infect others.  Absurd!  Many people with HCV
have found out about it only when their {*filter*} donations were found to have
HCV markers.  To suggest that this makes us bad people is totally
irrational.  After all, we don't  continue to donate {*filter*}, now that we
know we're infected.

The reason I asked this group about methods for quitting {*filter*} is that I
figured some of you would be able to suggest some techniques for getting
over the hump, since you would have been there.  Quitting a long-term habit
can be difficult, even when you know it's probably bad for your health
(consider cigarette smoking).  And this is especially true when the habit
is tied in with social rituals such as wine with dinner (or cigarettes with
coffee breaks, etc.).  It must have appeared to some of you that I was
blaming my wife, but you were reading far too much between the lines here
(I reviewed my post and there's nothing in there that would compel you to
this interpretation -- and I blame noone for my condition).  Again, it is
irrational to dismiss difficulties in abandoning a habit as a weakness in
character, as does Palmer when he calls me a wimp.  Normal human frailty is
not a character defect, especially when one is striving to conquer it.

As for the need to quit drinking, that's a separate discussion.  The
information I've gleaned so far on that subject, from this NG, and from
other sources, is:  (1) Standard medical advice is to quit drinking
altogether, since a safe {*filter*} dosage has not been determined for HCV
patients; (2) HCV patients who drink large amounts of {*filter*} on a daily
basis definitely increase their risk of cirrhosis and HCC; (3) people who
abstain altogether decrease their risk.  There's probably a middle ground,
and I'm not even sure I'll abstain 100%.  But drinking a half bottle of
wine each day is probably too much, so I need to find ways to enjoy the
social ritual of dinner at home without the daily dose.

As for you, Palmer, your series of over-the-top personal attacks expose a
meanness of spirit not evident in your previous posts, but it is there.  I
suspect that you are childishly resentful that my current liver condition
is more favorable than yours, even though it's in the same ballpark as many
participants in this NG.  Your refusal to donate your liver to me is
ludicrous.  Who would want the liver of someone so full of bile?  {*filter*}!

Quote:
> He has had his feedback. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I hope he takes
the
> kick in the pants and does something about it. Sometimes that is the
better
> thing to do. Hear me Michael?

> Michael in Florida



Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol



Quote:
>Yep, I got some feedback all right.  Some of it was quite useful, e.g., try
>AA (an option I had not known was available to moderate drinkers); try
>non-{*filter*}ic wines during social occasions, including dinner (others were
>skeptical about this approach).  These are the kinds of specific advice I
>was hoping for.  Thanks.

Thanks for your follow-up message, Michael.  One of the problems we
have is when we respond to a message that is not the original.  It's
like a giant game of 'whisper' (passing a message from one to another)
where the resulting message is only vaguely related to the original
one.

So I apologize where my comments were off the mark and addressed a
situation that doesn't exist.

I have to admit: if it was proven tomorrow that chocolate in any
quantities was bad for my liver, I'd have a REAL problem giving it up.
Guess we all have different things to cope with.

Janet in Dallas



Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Bug off, little piss-ant.



Quote:
> {*filter*}!

> Me full of bile?  You're the one swearing.  Always the
> hallmark of somebody who is unable to argue a valid point.



Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Michael,

1. The more we argue for our limitations, the more we are stuck with them.

2. You{*filter*}me off.

Leola, (ex drinker)

Quote:

> Yep, I got some feedback all right.........................

<vitriol snipped>


Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 Having trouble quitting alcohol

Aloha, Michael,

My former posting to you was out of character for me, and I'd like to
apologize. I am not easily angered, and the extreme physical pain I have been
experiencing for the past 48 hours should not have been directed toward you..

I do not like people verbally attacking others who I know to be fine people
also fighting this dragon virus, and trying to support others.  However, that
does not excuse my comment to you.

Many of  us in this group are suffering to varying extents, and this group is
intended for support as well as information.

I realize the title of your original post was "Having Trouble Quitting
{*filter*}". That took a certain amount of courage to admit, and it is a step in
the right direction.

I sincerely wish you the best of  luck. Let us know how you are doing.

Leola

Quote:

> Yep, I got some feedback all right.  Some of it was quite useful, e.g., try
> AA (an option I had not known was available to moderate drinkers); try
> non-{*filter*}ic wines during social occasions, including dinner (others were
> skeptical about this approach).  These are the kinds of specific advice I
> was hoping for.  Thanks.



Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 
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