archaeology, MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson

MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson

Author	Message
Inger E Johansso #1 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson In an other thread I sent the groups an url to one of the most important documents from 10th century for the discussions we have had over the years dealing with all from Eirik the Red's son Leif Eriksson's voyage to NA up to KRS, Ivar Bardson and on to King Erik's call for England to pay tax and damages caused by English merchandisers and fishermen not having payed their tithes in Greenland and Iceland nor the merchandise-tax to the King of Norway but also for the pirates who stolen ships sailing from Greenland and Iceland loaded with cargo to Bergen, Copenhagen resp. the Orkneys. Anyhow the first major impact of the trakta came to be that Anlaf (Olav) of Norway became baptised. If he hadn't the bishop of Orkney mentioned in the text might not have visited him in Norway, thus Olav wouldn't have had Leif Eriksson baptised and sent back to Greenland to tell about the new Christian faith. But of course most of you already drawn that conclusion so I guess we have to look a little bit closer to the Royal Dy{filter} circus of Scandinavia in those days. King Olof Sk?tkonung who in year 1000 AD was baptised of the same bishop on his voyage home, was the son of Gunhild from Poland(Obodrites in Adam's work) and not Sigrid Storr?da which the Icelandic Sagas later said. Sigrid who had been a concubine of Olof's father was Olof's nanny but that's an other story. Gunhild remarried after her husband's death. She married the Danish King and in that marriage two children are known to have been born - Knut/Cnut by the English called Canute the Great the Dane who became English King in 1016 and Estrid who was married at least twice once to the Duke of Normandy and once to Jarl Ulf, Jarl of England as well as of V?sterg?tland. So what you didn't know is that Canute the Great of Denmark-England and King Olof Sk?tkonung of Sweden with roots in V?sterg?tland were halfbrothers but also rivals. More in part 3 where the impacts on the Royal Dynasties of Sweden from the MS 991's mentioned bishop of Orkney, called Sigfrid instead of Sigeric here in Sweden, and the baptising of King Olof Sk?tkonung. Inger E
Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:14:44 GMT

Ed Stasi #2 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > King Olof Sk?tkonung who in year 1000 AD was baptised of the same > bishop on his voyage home, was the son of Gunhild from Poland > Gunhild remarried after her husband's death. She married the Danish > King and in that marriage two children are known to have been born > - Knut/Cnut by the English called Canute the Great the Dane who > became English King in 1016 Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England Also, apparently Gunhild (Swietoslawa) is the great aunt 28 times removed of Winston Churchill.
Thu, 04 Jan 2007 02:20:08 GMT

Inger E Johansso #3 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > King Olof Sk?tkonung who in year 1000 AD was baptised of the same > > bishop on his voyage home, was the son of Gunhild from Poland > > Gunhild remarried after her husband's death. She married the Danish > > King and in that marriage two children are known to have been born > > - Knut/Cnut by the English called Canute the Great the Dane who > > became English King in 1016 > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > Also, apparently Gunhild (Swietoslawa) is the great aunt 28 > times removed of Winston Churchill. Yes she is. But it's getting more interesting on the route there. She is also the great aunt x times removed from many other Noblemen, Politians and Royalty. That's the key to the 14th and 15th century events leading up to the exploration of the new world. But her Danish daughter Estrid, sister to King Canute must have been a real nice lady. Not only did her children with Jarl Ulf marry into to of the Swedish Royal Families, but she was also engaged in her youth to a Norwegian King to be and she was married to the Duke of Normandy. Some documents from 11th century say that she was the right mother of Wilhelm and not as the official history say. Anyhow one of her other sons are known to us as Svein Estridson, King of Denmark who before he inherited(?!?) Denmark were the vasall of Olof Sk?tkonung's son King Anund(also called Ane in some history books) during a short period Svein Estridson also were vasall to the Norwegian King and as such participated in the voyage to Greenland and Vinland when one of the ships in the group, the one with King Olav's son were lost in a storm and ended up on the Eastern side of Greenland where the shipswrecked seems to have lived approx. 6 month before the cold weather took them King Olav's son is buried there together with some of the other crewmembers. The ship with Svein Estridson on returned to Bergen. He became King of Denmark and it was at his court Adam of Bremen got first hand information about Vinland. But that part you already know of, of course. Inger E
Thu, 04 Jan 2007 04:10:21 GMT

Soren Larse #4 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: >> King Olof Sk?tkonung who in year 1000 AD was baptised of the same >> bishop on his voyage home, was the son of Gunhild from Poland >> Gunhild remarried after her husband's death. She married the Danish >> King and in that marriage two children are known to have been born >> - Knut/Cnut by the English called Canute the Great the Dane who >> became English King in 1016 > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England Interesting. Do you remember a source for this? Soren Larsen
Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:14:51 GMT

Arkadiusz Buga #5 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > King Olof Sk?tkonung who in year 1000 AD was baptised of the same > > bishop on his voyage home, was the son of Gunhild from Poland > > Gunhild remarried after her husband's death. She married the Danish > > King and in that marriage two children are known to have been born > > - Knut/Cnut by the English called Canute the Great the Dane who > > became English King in 1016 > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > Also, apparently Gunhild (Swietoslawa) is the great aunt 28 > times removed of Winston Churchill. Uhm. I didn't know that Winston Churchil had Polish roots but it is worth explaining who Gunhilda -Swentoslava (G-S) was. She was a daughter of the first Polish historic ruler Mieshko I (baptized 966). G-S was probably born about 970. her name wsn't mentioned by sources. She was mentioned directly only by one contemporary source, namely Chronicle of Theitmar, although the second source, namely Adam of Brema Chronicle from the scond half of XI century is said to be based on trustworthy information. Aformentioned chronicles both speak of an anonymous Polish princess (according to Thietmar daughter of Mieshko I, according to Adam, daughter of Boleslav I the Brave) married to Swedish king Eric the Victorious (marriage lasted approximately 980-995), who, subsequently, after his death married Danish king Sven the Forkbeard. The older historiography claimed that between marrages she was for a while a fiancee of Norwegian king Olaf Trygvasson This is now denied. At unknown moment after 995 G-S married Sven who after 1002 rejected her. She gave Sven 5 children (2 sons and 3 daughters). G-S came back to Poland but her children Harald and Canute (the Great) bring her back to Danemark after the Forkbeard death in 1014 (died in England), where she eventually died at unknown moment after 1016. Polish genelaogist Oswald Balzer, who found out basic facts of G-S life derived from sagas her possible Scandinavian name Sygurda and nickname Storrada (the Proud). Oswald laso assumed that her Slavic name is irreversibly lost. Since Danish historian S{filter}rup discovery name of her daughter Swentoslava mentioned in Liber vitae, register and martyrology of New Minster and Hyde Abbey Winchester (publ. London 1982) it is accepted that her likely name was Swentoslava. In reference to name Gunhilda I know only that it is accepted in Danish historiography. Unfortunately my source of this information i.e. K. Jasinski's book doesn't explain why. If anyone can explain this I woud be grateful. I must also add that I don't know anything about 300 Polish raiders taking part in reclaiming England by Sven's sons. Thietmar and Adam of Bremen remain silent about that but may be there is an Anglo-Saxon source, unknown for me, which does mention this. Best regards Arkadiusz Bugaj
Thu, 04 Jan 2007 20:44:50 GMT

Ed Stasi #6 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > Also, apparently Gunhild (Swietoslawa) is the great aunt 28 > > times removed of Winston Churchill. > Yes she is. But it's getting more interesting on the route there. > She is also the great aunt x times removed from many other Noblemen, > Politians and Royalty. That's the key to the 14th and 15th century > events leading up to the exploration of the new world. Maybe you or somebody else can confirm this, but I remember reading somewhere that Gunhild/Swietoslawa is kind of the "founding mother" of every royal family in Europe, as they can all trace their lineage back to either her first marriage to King Eric VIII of Sweden or her second marriage to King Sven I Forkbeard of Denmark. For example, I think she's the great aunt 20 something times removed of William and Harry, son's of Prince Charles and Lady Diana.
Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:45:47 GMT

Ed Stasi #7 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > Interesting. Do you remember a source for this? "The Polish Way" by Adam Zamoyski, thou it's just a comment related to the discussion of King Mieszko I and doesn't go into detail.
Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:52:42 GMT

Inger E Johansso #8 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > > Also, apparently Gunhild (Swietoslawa) is the great aunt 28 > > > times removed of Winston Churchill. > > Yes she is. But it's getting more interesting on the route there. > > She is also the great aunt x times removed from many other Noblemen, > > Politians and Royalty. That's the key to the 14th and 15th century > > events leading up to the exploration of the new world. > Maybe you or somebody else can confirm this, but I remember reading > somewhere that Gunhild/Swietoslawa is kind of the "founding mother" > of every royal family in Europe, as they can all trace their lineage > back to either her first marriage to King Eric VIII of Sweden or her > second marriage to King Sven I Forkbeard of Denmark. Correct. That's what I am aiming at showing. You see what happened to her descendants and who they married between her marriage to King Erik(we write it with a 'k') and 1521 actually explain a lot of the facts which so many non-specialist in Scandinavian-Greenland-North America questions either don't know of or believe because they don't have the facts put in a context. Quote: > For example, I think she's the great aunt 20 something times removed > of William and Harry, son's of Prince Charles and Lady Diana. Not to mention that at least 2 American Presidents, Russia's Putkin and Juan Carlos of Spain can draw their lines back to her. Inger E
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:50:49 GMT

Inger E Johansso #9 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > > > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > > > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > > Interesting. Do you remember a source for this? > "The Polish Way" by Adam Zamoyski, thou it's just a comment related > to the discussion of King Mieszko I and doesn't go into detail. A splendid work. Zamoyski Adam, The Polish way : a thousand-year history of the Poles and their culture London 1987 ISBN: 0-7195-4283-9 Inger E
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:53:04 GMT

Arkadiusz Buga #10 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Sorry Ed! I am not going to pick up on you but I would like to know if Alexander Zamoyski in his book mentions his source of knowledge, at least secondary one, in reference to 300 Polish warriors fighting in Canutes the Great army reconquering England. I am really curious. Arkadiusz Bugaj Quote: > > > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > > > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > > > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > > Interesting. Do you remember a source for this? > "The Polish Way" by Adam Zamoyski, thou it's just a comment related > to the discussion of King Mieszko I and doesn't go into detail.
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:30:30 GMT

Arkadiusz Buga #11 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > > > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > > > > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > > > > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > > > Interesting. Do you remember a source for this? > > "The Polish Way" by Adam Zamoyski, thou it's just a comment related > > to the discussion of King Mieszko I and doesn't go into detail. > A splendid work. > Zamoyski Adam, The Polish way : a thousand-year history of the Poles and > their culture London 1987 > ISBN: 0-7195-4283-9 > Inger E Probably it is. I haven't read it so I won't judge it but what is nagging me now it is the fact that Ed Stasiak citing Zamoyski's book, happened to mention about 300 Polish warriors fighting in army of Canute the Great when he was reconquering England. I have checked a few books and articles (some of them analytical) I have about history of medieval Poland and England and found nothing. I would like to know Zamoyski's sources of knowledge in reference to this alleged fact which implies that at the time existed Polish-Danish alliance. Arkadiusz Bugaj
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:50:02 GMT

Inger E Johansso #12 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: > > > > > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > > > > > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > > > > > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > > > > Interesting. Do you remember a source for this? > > > "The Polish Way" by Adam Zamoyski, thou it's just a comment related > > > to the discussion of King Mieszko I and doesn't go into detail. > > A splendid work. > > Zamoyski Adam, The Polish way : a thousand-year history of the Poles and > > their culture London 1987 > > ISBN: 0-7195-4283-9 > > Inger E > Probably it is. I haven't read it so I won't judge it but what is nagging me > now it is the fact that Ed Stasiak citing Zamoyski's book, happened to > mention about 300 Polish warriors fighting in army of Canute the Great when > he was reconquering England. I have checked a few books and articles (some > of them analytical) I have about history of medieval Poland and England and > found nothing. I would like to know Zamoyski's sources of knowledge in > reference to this alleged fact which implies that at the time existed > Polish-Danish alliance. > Arkadiusz Bugaj After Gunhild's second husband Svein, King of Denmark and father of Canute and Estrid had died Gunhild moved back to Poland. The notes about the Polish warriors seems to fit the time when she returned back to Denmark. Inger E - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:22:39 GMT

Todd A. Farmeri #13 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: >>>>Also, apparently Gunhild (Swietoslawa) is the great aunt 28 >>>>times removed of Winston Churchill. >>>Yes she is. But it's getting more interesting on the route there. >>>She is also the great aunt x times removed from many other Noblemen, >>>Politians and Royalty. That's the key to the 14th and 15th century >>>events leading up to the exploration of the new world. >>Maybe you or somebody else can confirm this, but I remember reading >>somewhere that Gunhild/Swietoslawa is kind of the "founding mother" >>of every royal family in Europe, as they can all trace their lineage >>back to either her first marriage to King Eric VIII of Sweden or her >>second marriage to King Sven I Forkbeard of Denmark. > Correct. That's what I am aiming at showing. You see what happened to her > descendants and who they married between her marriage to King Erik(we write > it with a 'k') and 1521 actually explain a lot of the facts which so many > non-specialist in Scandinavian-Greenland-North America questions either > don't know of or believe because they don't have the facts put in a context. >>For example, I think she's the great aunt 20 something times removed >>of William and Harry, son's of Prince Charles and Lady Diana. > Not to mention that at least 2 American Presidents, Russia's Putkin and Juan > Carlos of Spain can draw their lines back to her. All of these people, and probably hundreds of millions more descend from her, but too much should not be made of this. The continued need for varied political alliances, yet the prohibition against marry too close a relative led to far-flung marriage negotiations that quickly resulted in any royal having descendants giving rise to a similar broad descent. The fact that "Gunhild/Swietoslawa" was great-aunt, several times removed, of King Pedro II of Aragon, while his neighbor, the King of France, descended directly from her, was of no political significance whatsoever. To select descent from this particular woman as important to what would come to pass is to misunderstand the whole pattern of medieval intermarriage and descent - by 1521, nearly every European royal was related to every other numerous times over, and each had common descent from thousands of women contemporary with "Gunhild/Swietoslawa". taf
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:35:40 GMT

Soren Larse #14 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Quote: >> Probably it is. I haven't read it so I won't judge it but what is >> nagging me now it is the fact that Ed Stasiak citing Zamoyski's >> book, happened to mention about 300 Polish warriors fighting in army >> of Canute the Great when he was reconquering England. I have checked >> a few books and articles (some of them analytical) I have about >> history of medieval Poland and England and found nothing. I would >> like to know Zamoyski's sources of knowledge in reference to this >> alleged fact which implies that at the time existed Polish-Danish >> alliance. >> Arkadiusz Bugaj > After Gunhild's second husband Svein, King of Denmark and father of > Canute and Estrid had died Gunhild moved back to Poland. The notes > about the Polish warriors seems to fit the time when she returned > back to Denmark. DOH! By coincidence does it also fit in with Cnuts invasion of England after Sveins death. We all know that. But do you know the source for this claim? Soren Larsen
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:47:01 GMT

Arkadiusz Buga #15 / 28	MS 991's impact on Leif Eriksson Ok timing may be is OK but the question is: What is the source for thi information. As I said I don't know any primary source to back it. Mr Zamoyski cannot fulfill the task. Check my posts here for this thread. Arkadiusz Bugaj Quote: > > > > > > Just tossing in my 2 cents. Canute would visit his uncle, > > > > > > King Boleslaw I of Poland, in 1014 where he was loaned 300 > > > > > > hor{filter} that he used to help him reconquer England > > > > > Interesting. Do you remember a source for this? > > > > "The Polish Way" by Adam Zamoyski, thou it's just a comment related > > > > to the discussion of King Mieszko I and doesn't go into detail. > > > A splendid work. > > > Zamoyski Adam, The Polish way : a thousand-year history of the Poles and > > > their culture London 1987 > > > ISBN: 0-7195-4283-9 > > > Inger E > > Probably it is. I haven't read it so I won't judge it but what is nagging > me > > now it is the fact that Ed Stasiak citing Zamoyski's book, happened to > > mention about 300 Polish warriors fighting in army of Canute the Great > when > > he was reconquering England. I have checked a few books and articles (some > > of them analytical) I have about history of medieval Poland and England > and > > found nothing. I would like to know Zamoyski's sources of knowledge in > > reference to this alleged fact which implies that at the time existed > > Polish-Danish alliance. > > Arkadiusz Bugaj > After Gunhild's second husband Svein, King of Denmark and father of Canute > and Estrid had died Gunhild moved back to Poland. The notes about the Polish > warriors seems to fit the time when she returned back to Denmark. > Inger E
Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:56:35 GMT

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