Definition of TROLL | Definition of dentistry 
Author Message
 Definition of TROLL | Definition of dentistry

This is NOT about trolling. This is about dentistry:

This is an inquiry about why denturists can fabricate partial dentures under conditions that would be spell malpractice for a
similarly situated licensed dentist.

This is sci.med.dentistry. We are discussing dentistry.

We can surely drop this for lack of interest. We should not distract this with "trolling" arguments. It is an important concept in
dentistry, and a controversial one too. However, it answers in my mind why our Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will not allow denturism
under any circumstances. I can see the reasoning much better right now.

Let's forget the "Get your mercury checked!" arguments. That's really a very poor argument FOR denturism and does denturism a
disservice!

In Pennsylvania, we nelieve that once Denturism has its foot in the door, it is difficult to effectively regulate. It needs to be
regulated as the public cannot protect itself in these matters.

There are various pathologies that need to be addressed before fabrication of removable partial and full dentures. It is a
disservice to fabricate a partial denture and then absolve oneself of the responsibility of after care. Yup teeth do go bad. This is
why I insist on x-rays first. I bet many of you dentists do the same. Some teeth require abutment crowns. Some "denture" patients
need not be denture patients.

That is the role of dentistry.

I can see a dentist x-raying, diagnosing, and then referring a patient TO a denturist, in the absence of pathology and in the cases
where fixed (non-removable) restorative services would not be feasible. I cannot see skimming off removable partial denture patients
and then turning the patient back out into the world to fend for himself/herself.

That patient, after I complete treatment, calls me to follow through on pain, on TMJ problems, on bite adjustments, on broken
abutment teeth, on remakes that are surely bound to occur during the ensuing years.

A denturist, without benefit of x-rays, without benefit of a drill, without benefit of abutment crown technology, withot anesthetic,
without benefit of prepared marginal ridges (for distal rests), is at a distinct disadvantage.

Anyone want to discuss the dental considerations, or is the THREAD about TROLLING?

Joel M. Eichen DDS

Discussions are welcome.
There appears to be
none forthcoming.



Sat, 06 Aug 2005 20:55:34 GMT
 Definition of TROLL | Definition of dentistry
Joel,

Let me put this as simply as my little mind can figure it out.

A crummy lousy Denturist who does not care about education and quality will
harm lots of patients, and hurt the profession as a whole.  A dedicated,
well educated and motivated Denturist would be wonderful asset to the dental
profession.  Funny,,,,, we can say the same thing about crummy Dentists and
good Dentists ! ! ! !

Good Denturists will not build on teeth that require restoration, except in
a transitional fashion.  If the patient has not been radiographed and
evaluated for caries for more than a year, the patient should (and would if
the Denturist cares) be referred for full examination and restorative
treatment prior to fabrication of the final prosthesis.  There will always
be those patients who get the transitional dentures and never seek further
care.  Just as we sometimes extirpate pulps and the patient never gets the
canals filed and obturated.

We could bounce this ping-pong ball back and forth for ever.  How about we
find the points which we both agree on first and branch out from there?

1)  I think the need motivated and well educated professionals in every
sub-section of dentistry.
2)  I think we need to avoid poorly educated and non-caring individuals from
all of dentistry.
3)  I think I could easily work with a Denturist together on prosthetic
cases
4)  There is more than enough dentistry to go around, so that I do not feel
threatened by Denturists treating my patients
5)  There is a definite need for a professional to specialize in removable
prosthetics without getting into the overhead and associated expenses of the
board certified prosthodontist.  There are plenty of tough cases for them to
treat.
6)  The Denturist is not apt to experience anywhere near the high level of
overhead that a Dentist does, and can (potentially) offer dentures at more
affordable rates.

Rather than pull up any differences and dwell on them, how about discussing
what is going on in PA over this issue.  The politics of such actions would
make for much more reasonable discussion and all these issues would be
covered in that discussion much better.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Stephen Mancuso,  D.D.S.

Troy, Michigan  USA
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will effect
your health.
......................
As a qualified and licensed dentist, I can assure you that Jan Drew's advice
and links can be safely ignored.  She is retired daycare center owner with a
personal, ill-founded agenda.  None of the qualified and licensed dentists
who frequent this group endorse her advice and the websites she provides
links to..
~~~~~~~~~`````````````########


Quote:
> This is NOT about trolling. This is about dentistry:

> This is an inquiry about why denturists can fabricate partial dentures

under conditions that would be spell malpractice for a
Quote:
> similarly situated licensed dentist.

> This is sci.med.dentistry. We are discussing dentistry.

> We can surely drop this for lack of interest. We should not distract this

with "trolling" arguments. It is an important concept in
Quote:
> dentistry, and a controversial one too. However, it answers in my mind why

our Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will not allow denturism
Quote:
> under any circumstances. I can see the reasoning much better right now.

> Let's forget the "Get your mercury checked!" arguments. That's really a

very poor argument FOR denturism and does denturism a
Quote:
> disservice!

> In Pennsylvania, we nelieve that once Denturism has its foot in the door,

it is difficult to effectively regulate. It needs to be
Quote:
> regulated as the public cannot protect itself in these matters.

> There are various pathologies that need to be addressed before fabrication

of removable partial and full dentures. It is a
Quote:
> disservice to fabricate a partial denture and then absolve oneself of the

responsibility of after care. Yup teeth do go bad. This is
Quote:
> why I insist on x-rays first. I bet many of you dentists do the same. Some

teeth require abutment crowns. Some "denture" patients
Quote:
> need not be denture patients.

> That is the role of dentistry.

> I can see a dentist x-raying, diagnosing, and then referring a patient TO

a denturist, in the absence of pathology and in the cases
Quote:
> where fixed (non-removable) restorative services would not be feasible. I

cannot see skimming off removable partial denture patients
Quote:
> and then turning the patient back out into the world to fend for
himself/herself.

> That patient, after I complete treatment, calls me to follow through on

pain, on TMJ problems, on bite adjustments, on broken
Quote:
> abutment teeth, on remakes that are surely bound to occur during the
ensuing years.

> A denturist, without benefit of x-rays, without benefit of a drill,

without benefit of abutment crown technology, withot anesthetic,
Quote:
> without benefit of prepared marginal ridges (for distal rests), is at a

distinct disadvantage.
Quote:

> Anyone want to discuss the dental considerations, or is the THREAD about
TROLLING?

> Joel M. Eichen DDS

> Discussions are welcome.
> There appears to be
> none forthcoming.



Mon, 08 Aug 2005 00:06:11 GMT
 Definition of TROLL | Definition of dentistry
I believe you and I am certain that someone like Roy does the right thing. Let's recall the discussion was about "THE CONCEPT"
rather than any individual, although I can see how people get out-of-whack when it looks to be personal.

Joel

Quote:

> Joel,

> Let me put this as simply as my little mind can figure it out.

> A crummy lousy Denturist who does not care about education and quality will
> harm lots of patients, and hurt the profession as a whole.  A dedicated,
> well educated and motivated Denturist would be wonderful asset to the dental
> profession.  Funny,,,,, we can say the same thing about crummy Dentists and
> good Dentists ! ! ! !

> Good Denturists will not build on teeth that require restoration, except in
> a transitional fashion.  If the patient has not been radiographed and
> evaluated for caries for more than a year, the patient should (and would if
> the Denturist cares) be referred for full examination and restorative
> treatment prior to fabrication of the final prosthesis.  There will always
> be those patients who get the transitional dentures and never seek further
> care.  Just as we sometimes extirpate pulps and the patient never gets the
> canals filed and obturated.

> We could bounce this ping-pong ball back and forth for ever.  How about we
> find the points which we both agree on first and branch out from there?

> 1)  I think the need motivated and well educated professionals in every
> sub-section of dentistry.
> 2)  I think we need to avoid poorly educated and non-caring individuals from
> all of dentistry.
> 3)  I think I could easily work with a Denturist together on prosthetic
> cases
> 4)  There is more than enough dentistry to go around, so that I do not feel
> threatened by Denturists treating my patients
> 5)  There is a definite need for a professional to specialize in removable
> prosthetics without getting into the overhead and associated expenses of the
> board certified prosthodontist.  There are plenty of tough cases for them to
> treat.
> 6)  The Denturist is not apt to experience anywhere near the high level of
> overhead that a Dentist does, and can (potentially) offer dentures at more
> affordable rates.

> Rather than pull up any differences and dwell on them, how about discussing
> what is going on in PA over this issue.  The politics of such actions would
> make for much more reasonable discussion and all these issues would be
> covered in that discussion much better.

> --
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Stephen Mancuso,  D.D.S.

> Troy, Michigan  USA
> +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
> This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
> Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
> the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
> in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will effect
> your health.
> ......................
> As a qualified and licensed dentist, I can assure you that Jan Drew's advice
> and links can be safely ignored.  She is retired daycare center owner with a
> personal, ill-founded agenda.  None of the qualified and licensed dentists
> who frequent this group endorse her advice and the websites she provides
> links to..
> ~~~~~~~~~`````````````########


> > This is NOT about trolling. This is about dentistry:

> > This is an inquiry about why denturists can fabricate partial dentures
> under conditions that would be spell malpractice for a
> > similarly situated licensed dentist.

> > This is sci.med.dentistry. We are discussing dentistry.

> > We can surely drop this for lack of interest. We should not distract this
> with "trolling" arguments. It is an important concept in
> > dentistry, and a controversial one too. However, it answers in my mind why
> our Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will not allow denturism
> > under any circumstances. I can see the reasoning much better right now.

> > Let's forget the "Get your mercury checked!" arguments. That's really a
> very poor argument FOR denturism and does denturism a
> > disservice!

> > In Pennsylvania, we nelieve that once Denturism has its foot in the door,
> it is difficult to effectively regulate. It needs to be
> > regulated as the public cannot protect itself in these matters.

> > There are various pathologies that need to be addressed before fabrication
> of removable partial and full dentures. It is a
> > disservice to fabricate a partial denture and then absolve oneself of the
> responsibility of after care. Yup teeth do go bad. This is
> > why I insist on x-rays first. I bet many of you dentists do the same. Some
> teeth require abutment crowns. Some "denture" patients
> > need not be denture patients.

> > That is the role of dentistry.

> > I can see a dentist x-raying, diagnosing, and then referring a patient TO
> a denturist, in the absence of pathology and in the cases
> > where fixed (non-removable) restorative services would not be feasible. I
> cannot see skimming off removable partial denture patients
> > and then turning the patient back out into the world to fend for
> himself/herself.

> > That patient, after I complete treatment, calls me to follow through on
> pain, on TMJ problems, on bite adjustments, on broken
> > abutment teeth, on remakes that are surely bound to occur during the
> ensuing years.

> > A denturist, without benefit of x-rays, without benefit of a drill,
> without benefit of abutment crown technology, withot anesthetic,
> > without benefit of prepared marginal ridges (for distal rests), is at a
> distinct disadvantage.

> > Anyone want to discuss the dental considerations, or is the THREAD about
> TROLLING?

> > Joel M. Eichen DDS

> > Discussions are welcome.
> > There appears to be
> > none forthcoming.



Mon, 08 Aug 2005 05:57:53 GMT
 Definition of TROLL | Definition of dentistry
I was talking about the concept, not any individual.

--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`



Quote:
> I believe you and I am certain that someone like Roy does the right thing.

Let's recall the discussion was about "THE CONCEPT"
Quote:
> rather than any individual, although I can see how people get out-of-whack

when it looks to be personal.
Quote:

> Joel



Mon, 08 Aug 2005 09:36:09 GMT
 Definition of TROLL | Definition of dentistry

Quote:

> I was talking about the concept, not any individual.

> --

We have clever denturists around here too. Illegal, but hey! What is the law? I had more of a 'composite idea' about the
"denturists" I was speaking about than any individual and certainly none of this applies to Roy.

This one guy DOES use a panorex to x-ray teeth, DOES diagnose periodontal disease even where it does not exist, and hands the
scaling and root planing off to his dentist/employees!

How is that for slimy?

Joel M. Eichen DDS

Quote:
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`



> > I believe you and I am certain that someone like Roy does the right thing.
> Let's recall the discussion was about "THE CONCEPT"
> > rather than any individual, although I can see how people get out-of-whack
> when it looks to be personal.

> > Joel



Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:42:21 GMT
 
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