Root Canal work done when not needed? 
Author Message
 Root Canal work done when not needed?

     Recently my wife had a root c{*filter*}done which has been completed.
The question is we just switched dentist and after they reviewed the
xray's from the previous dentist they stated that root canals were
never needed. So, I decided to contact another dentist in the area and
made an appointment for my wife, she went and showed the xrays, and
this dentist said from the xrays the work was defiantly not needed.
Well $$$$ later what can I do now? Should I contact the dentist whom
said she needed the work and tell them this or should I contact a
lawyer?

Thanks,

Not Happy.



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:35:08 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?


Quote:

>      Recently my wife had a root c{*filter*}done which has been completed.
> The question is we just switched dentist and after they reviewed the
> xray's from the previous dentist they stated that root canals were
> never needed.

Sorry, the dentist could not possibly know that!

Joel

Joel M. Eichen DDS

Quote:
>So, I decided to contact another dentist in the area and
> made an appointment for my wife, she went and showed the xrays, and
> this dentist said from the xrays the work was defiantly not needed.
> Well $$$$ later what can I do now? Should I contact the dentist whom
> said she needed the work and tell them this or should I contact a
> lawyer?

> Thanks,

> Not Happy.



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 07:00:05 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?
Did dentist #2 and #3 have a crystal ball, tarot cards, ESP, a time
machine????

Root c{*filter*}therapy is often done to address conditions that simply cannot be
seen on an x-ray...so there is no way they could have know if the root c{*filter*}
was or was not needed after the fact. There are most certainly cases where
an x-ray will clearly show that root c{*filter*}was needed, but the absence of
such signs on an x-ray is NOT an indicator that the treatment was
unnecessary. The early stages of endodontic pathology will often not show
any signs on an x-ray.

I think you should go back to #2 and #3 dentist and ask them to explain
exactly how they determined the root c{*filter*}therapy wasn't needed. Let us
know what they say. At this point, and based on what you say, I find THEIR
opinions rather suspect.

T


Quote:

>      Recently my wife had a root c{*filter*}done which has been completed.
> The question is we just switched dentist and after they reviewed the
> xray's from the previous dentist they stated that root canals were
> never needed. So, I decided to contact another dentist in the area and
> made an appointment for my wife, she went and showed the xrays, and
> this dentist said from the xrays the work was defiantly not needed.
> Well $$$$ later what can I do now? Should I contact the dentist whom
> said she needed the work and tell them this or should I contact a
> lawyer?

> Thanks,

> Not Happy.



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:57:42 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?


Quote:
> Did dentist #2 and #3 have a crystal ball, tarot cards, ESP, a time
> machine????

Jackson Square NOLA diagnostic dentistry IMHO

carabelli



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 10:32:31 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?


Quote:

>      Recently my wife had a root c{*filter*}done which has been completed.
> The question is we just switched dentist and after they reviewed the
> xray's from the previous dentist they stated that root canals were
> never needed. So, I decided to contact another dentist in the area and
> made an appointment for my wife, she went and showed the xrays, and
> this dentist said from the xrays the work was defiantly not needed.

Well my wifes xray doesn't show any problems either but her tooth is split
and it looks like she is heading for a root canal.


Sat, 13 Oct 2007 15:04:20 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?


Quote:
> Did dentist #2 and #3 have a crystal ball, tarot cards, ESP, a time
> machine????

> Root c{*filter*}therapy is often done to address conditions that simply cannot
be
> seen on an x-ray...so there is no way they could have know if the root
c{*filter*}
> was or was not needed after the fact. There are most certainly cases where
> an x-ray will clearly show that root c{*filter*}was needed, but the absence of
> such signs on an x-ray is NOT an indicator that the treatment was
> unnecessary. The early stages of endodontic pathology will often not show
> any signs on an x-ray.

REPLY

Reminding folks about the UCCI clause
that mentions the need to DOCUMENT the
diagnosis in those cases. UCCI took a
chargeback against a colleague/friend whose
 records were not complete in that regard.

Joel

Quote:

> I think you should go back to #2 and #3 dentist and ask them to explain
> exactly how they determined the root c{*filter*}therapy wasn't needed. Let us
> know what they say. At this point, and based on what you say, I find THEIR
> opinions rather suspect.

I agree. -- JOEL
Quote:

> T



> >      Recently my wife had a root c{*filter*}done which has been completed.
> > The question is we just switched dentist and after they reviewed the
> > xray's from the previous dentist they stated that root canals were
> > never needed. So, I decided to contact another dentist in the area and
> > made an appointment for my wife, she went and showed the xrays, and
> > this dentist said from the xrays the work was defiantly not needed.
> > Well $$$$ later what can I do now? Should I contact the dentist whom
> > said she needed the work and tell them this or should I contact a
> > lawyer?

> > Thanks,

> > Not Happy.



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:43:09 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?
Perfect, just what I wanted to hear. See there wasn't really any pain
with the tooth, and the dentist (who did the root canal) based the
entire "needed root canal" from the xrays. They said the decay was
inside the tooth and since the two teeth were so close together it
could only be seen with an xray. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
So what do I do now? That's the only question I have, just answer it.


Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:57:51 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?

This is just "he said", "they said" so far.  Saying, "I don't *think*
that tooth would have needed a root canal" is one thing.  Saying, "It
is very doubtful that a root c{*filter*}was needed" would even be possible.
Saying, "That tooth *did not* need a root canal" is very rarely possible.

It's hard to imagine someone out there doing root canals when they
know they aren't needed.  If a dentist wanted to overtreat to increase
revenues, it would be much easier to just overdiagnose decay and push
crowns, bleaching, and veneers.

What do you do?  Find a dentist you trust and move on with your lives.
Maybe you were ripped off.  Maybe the next guys just want to look good
to get new patients.  Maybe they just disagree.  This isn't like she
lost a kidney.  There is a chance that the first dentist was right and
certainly a good possibility that he can't be proven wrong.  You could
contact the local dental society and ask about peer review.  You could
contact an attorney, but this doesn't sound like a case one would like
to take.

We've all been lied to, oversold, scammed, robbed, and abused sometime
in our lives.  When it happens (or you think it happens) you feel
violated and usually get mad.  This leads to wondering how to get
revenge upon who just took advantage of you.  Most of the time you can't
and living with all of the anger and hate further damages you body and
soul.

JME,
Fawks

Quote:

> Perfect, just what I wanted to hear. See there wasn't really any pain
> with the tooth, and the dentist (who did the root canal) based the
> entire "needed root canal" from the xrays. They said the decay was
> inside the tooth and since the two teeth were so close together it
> could only be seen with an xray. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
> So what do I do now? That's the only question I have, just answer it.



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:56:48 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?


Quote:

>     Recently my wife had a root c{*filter*}done which has been completed.
> The question is we just switched dentist and after they reviewed the
> xray's from the previous dentist they stated that root canals were
> never needed. So, I decided to contact another dentist in the area and
> made an appointment for my wife, she went and showed the xrays, and
> this dentist said from the xrays the work was defiantly not needed.
> Well $$$$ later what can I do now? Should I contact the dentist whom
> said she needed the work and tell them this or should I contact a
> lawyer?

How can a dentist tell by just looking at an x-ray that a root c{*filter*}is
"defiantly (definitely) not needed"?

Did the 2 other dentists do thermal testing on the tooth before the root
canal?  Did they test for percussion sensitivity?



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:32:04 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?

Quote:
> Did the 2 other dentists do thermal testing on the tooth before the
root
> canal?  Did they test for percussion sensitivity?

The other 2 dentists were contacted after the work was already done. As
I stated the dentist who did the work said according to the x-rays she
needed the root canals done.

Quote:
> What do you do?  Find a dentist you trust and move on with your
lives.
> Maybe you were ripped off.  Maybe the next guys just want to look
good
> to get new patients.  Maybe they just disagree.  This isn't like she
> lost a kidney.  There is a chance that the first dentist was right
and
> certainly a good possibility that he can't be proven wrong.  You
could
> contact the local dental society and ask about peer review.  You
could
> contact an attorney, but this doesn't sound like a case one would
like
> to take

Sounds like this is the only sensible route to take now, we've found a
dentist that was recommended to us by a friend, and were moving on. You
have a good point; guess I'll just mark it up to experience. I guess I
could write the BBB but might be a waste of time also. Guess I put way
to much trust in one dentist, think I'll get a second opinion next
time. Lesson Learned.


Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:18:37 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?


Quote:
> > Did the 2 other dentists do thermal testing on the tooth before the
> root
> > canal?  Did they test for percussion sensitivity?

> The other 2 dentists were contacted after the work was already done. As
> I stated the dentist who did the work said according to the x-rays she
> needed the root canals done.

How about posting the x-ray?

carabelli



Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:39:20 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?
Wait a minute,,,,,,, you are judging the first dentist unfairly.  There is
absolutely no way on this Earth to say a RCT was not needed by looking at an
x-ray image after the fact.  There is more to diagnosis than looking at
images.  The 2nd and 3rd dentists are being deceitful if they claim to be
able to tell whether or not RCT was needed after the fact, by looking at
x-ray images.

--
~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

Quote:
>> Did the 2 other dentists do thermal testing on the tooth before the
> root
>> canal?  Did they test for percussion sensitivity?

> The other 2 dentists were contacted after the work was already done. As
> I stated the dentist who did the work said according to the x-rays she
> needed the root canals done.

>> What do you do?  Find a dentist you trust and move on with your
> lives.
>> Maybe you were ripped off.  Maybe the next guys just want to look
> good
>> to get new patients.  Maybe they just disagree.  This isn't like she
>> lost a kidney.  There is a chance that the first dentist was right
> and
>> certainly a good possibility that he can't be proven wrong.  You
> could
>> contact the local dental society and ask about peer review.  You
> could
>> contact an attorney, but this doesn't sound like a case one would
> like
>> to take

> Sounds like this is the only sensible route to take now, we've found a
> dentist that was recommended to us by a friend, and were moving on. You
> have a good point; guess I'll just mark it up to experience. I guess I
> could write the BBB but might be a waste of time also. Guess I put way
> to much trust in one dentist, think I'll get a second opinion next
> time. Lesson Learned.



Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:08:01 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?


Quote:



>>      Recently my wife had a root c{*filter*}done which has been completed.
>> The question is we just switched dentist and after they reviewed the
>> xray's from the previous dentist they stated that root canals were
>> never needed. So, I decided to contact another dentist in the area and
>> made an appointment for my wife, she went and showed the xrays, and
>> this dentist said from the xrays the work was defiantly not needed.

> Well my wifes xray doesn't show any problems either but her tooth is split
> and it looks like she is heading for a root canal.

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/ #Root

  ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is
because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in
the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the
body causing potential harm.
An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually
following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems.
Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as
localised problems.

http://www.***.com/ ~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/ ~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

http://www.***.com/

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A
dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

http://www.***.com/

Toxicity from Root Canals

The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source
of
toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root c{*filter*}
therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have
abscessed. The root c{*filter*}is the left portion of the tooth which houses the
vital organs such as the nerve and {*filter*} vessels. The dentist endeavors to
clean and sterilize this c{*filter*}and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert
material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful;
however,
the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several
million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic
type
fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root c{*filter*}to the outside of
the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It
services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve
and {*filter*} centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the
flow
of lymphatic fluid is from the root c{*filter*}to the outside of the tooth. This
creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of
plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation
is
from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no
irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many
more
reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal
tubules. Root c{*filter*}therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what
happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages
becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now
becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you
want?
Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are
said
to be the cadavers of the body.

I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to
their
decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I
respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.

The next area of discussion is whether the root c{*filter*}filling actually
sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at
the
root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a
complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject.
Again, the complete acceptance of root c{*filter*}therapy as a viable
substitution
for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out
against
root c{*filter*}therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the
patient
make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Quote:
>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.
>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be
>required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental
>fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for
>the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.
>The warning will read as follows:
>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:
>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure
>to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth
>defects or other reproductive harm.
>Root c{*filter*}treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and
>bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.
>The U.S. cooking.net">food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and
>approved for use all dental restorative materials.
>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your
>treatment.
>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before
>Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental
>Association, the largest constituent organization of the American Dental
>Association and Attorney Shawn Khorrami (Cor-ahm-mee). The agreement
>requires its member dentists to warn patients about the toxic dangers of
>mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA
>dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.
>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn
>Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to
>advocacy and activism in the public interest.
>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a
>potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only
>problem is that it's about 100 years too late."
>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits
>filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that
>mercury fillings placed in a woman's mouth contributed to the autism of
>her child, as well as lawsuits in Maryland, California, and New York
>charging the American Dental Association with misrepresenting amalgam
>dental fillings as "silver." The lawsuits basically allege that such
>fillings actually contain approximately 50% mercury by weight. They cause
>continuous, daily exposure to mercury and, thereby pose substantial health
>risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most
>widely used substance in dental fillings today.
>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source
>of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.
>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the
>Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and
>private dental schools and training programs with more than nine
>employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking
>Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code 25249.6].
>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to
>persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or
>reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental
>amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit
>was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam
>restorative materials in dental offices.
>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more
>than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental
>fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to
>$2,500 per day.
>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at
>415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.
>###

LL/Jan


Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:08:08 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?
I agree... post away!

Joel


Quote:



> > > Did the 2 other dentists do thermal testing on the tooth before the
> > root
> > > canal?  Did they test for percussion sensitivity?

> > The other 2 dentists were contacted after the work was already done. As
> > I stated the dentist who did the work said according to the x-rays she
> > needed the root canals done.

> How about posting the x-ray?

> carabelli



Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:18:58 GMT
 Root Canal work done when not needed?
Why not post the x-ray here
so you can get independent verification?

Joel

Its the age of the internet.


Quote:
> Perfect, just what I wanted to hear. See there wasn't really any pain
> with the tooth, and the dentist (who did the root canal) based the
> entire "needed root canal" from the xrays. They said the decay was
> inside the tooth and since the two teeth were so close together it
> could only be seen with an xray. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
> So what do I do now? That's the only question I have, just answer it.



Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:15:23 GMT
 
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