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James H Whit
#1 / 23
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 diet soda vs sugared soda Hello. I'm wondering if anyone here can clear this up as there seems to be some controversy over the subject. But what is it within regular 'Cola' drinks that causes the tooth decay Is it:- 1) The sugar not the acid. The sugar sticks to the teeth, then bacteria living within the plaque on the teeth metabolise it steadily producing an acid, like a factory, around the tooth that then erodes the enamel. 2) Or is it the acid within the drink in the form of phosphoric and carbolic (I think the CO2 reacts with the water to form this acid) I know that Cola drinks are pretty acidic with a Ph of around 4. Some claim it is this rather than the sugar that causes the bulk of the damage. Others maintain that the acid within the drinks don't stick to the teeth and are quickly swallowed and any lingering acidity is quickly neutralised by saliva. Unlike the acid produced by the bacteria in plaque as a by-product of metabolising sugar. This acid is highly localised around the teeth and is constantly being generated until all the sugar has been used. Which scenario is correct, if any, and if both play a part how are they
rated i.e is it the phosphoric acid that does 90% and the
sugar-bacteria-acid pathway that does the remaining 10% etc?
Thanks.
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| Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:19:54 GMT |
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George Chatzipetro
#2 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more damage to his teeth. George
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| Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:01:40 GMT |
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Amatus Cremon
#3 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Sugar is metabolized into an acid in the final steps of the biochemical metabolism by bacteria. Sugar is also converted into sticky glyco-proteins which stick to the side to the tooth very well. Now you saturate that glyco-protein with potent acid and the decay occurs even faster than it would in the presence of sugar alone. Do you know why aqua regia is more potent than either nitric acid or hydrochloric acid? Do you know that soda have 3-5 acids mixed in each one? --
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Amatus
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Quote: >I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid > doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet > soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by > bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to > the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the > manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more > damage to his teeth. > George
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:10:06 GMT |
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Peter Meier
#4 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Hmmm, what is the difference between decay and erosion?
Id say, the _acid_ contained in the soda/cola will contribute to
erosion (dissolution of enamel from whole tooth surfaces) while _sugar_
will be metabolized locally at a small part of a tooth surface by plague
bacteria, which thereby slowly create a hole (decay). These (certain
types of) bacteria themselves have to be able to survive in the acidic
environment they create.
Peter
-----------------------------------
Amatus Cremona schrieb:
Quote: > Sugar is metabolized into an acid in the final steps of the biochemical
> metabolism by bacteria. Sugar is also converted into sticky glyco-proteins
> which stick to the side to the tooth very well. Now you saturate that
> glyco-protein with potent acid and the decay occurs even faster than it
> would in the presence of sugar alone. Do you know why aqua regia is more
> potent than either nitric acid or hydrochloric acid? Do you know that soda
> have 3-5 acids mixed in each one?
> --
> /
> Amatus
> /
> >I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid
> > doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet
> > soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by
> > bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to
> > the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the
> > manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more
> > damage to his teeth.
> > George
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:24:49 GMT |
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Amatus Cremon
#5 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Dental decay is a type of erosion --
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Amatus
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Quote: > Hmmm, what is the difference between decay and erosion?
> Id say, the _acid_ contained in the soda/cola will contribute to
> erosion (dissolution of enamel from whole tooth surfaces) while _sugar_
> will be metabolized locally at a small part of a tooth surface by plague
> bacteria, which thereby slowly create a hole (decay). These (certain
> types of) bacteria themselves have to be able to survive in the acidic
> environment they create.
> Peter
> -----------------------------------
> Amatus Cremona schrieb:
>> Sugar is metabolized into an acid in the final steps of the biochemical
>> metabolism by bacteria. Sugar is also converted into sticky
>> glyco-proteins
>> which stick to the side to the tooth very well. Now you saturate that
>> glyco-protein with potent acid and the decay occurs even faster than it
>> would in the presence of sugar alone. Do you know why aqua regia is more
>> potent than either nitric acid or hydrochloric acid? Do you know that
>> soda
>> have 3-5 acids mixed in each one?
>> --
>> /
>> Amatus
>> /
>> >I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid
>> > doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet
>> > soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by
>> > bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to
>> > the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the
>> > manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more
>> > damage to his teeth.
>> > George
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:39:05 GMT |
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George Chatzipetro
#6 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Hi Peter, loss of tooth tissue can generally be divided into carious
and noncarious tooth defects.
Caries is tooth decay, which needs bacteria to colonise the teeth and
produce acid, hence it is actually a bacterial disease. Plaque-free
teeth cannot decay.
Noncarious defects include everything else, commonly abrasions,
abfractions, fractures, erosions etc. Erosion is specifically the loss
of hard tooth tissue due to chemomechanical action that does not
involve bacteria. It can be caused by acid reflux, taking acidic
medicines long-term and drinking loads of acidic drinks.
Erosions are generally not as invasive as decay; if the cause is
removed then the process will stop, unlike decay, where the infected
dental tissues must be manually removed in order for the destructive
process to halt. Erosions can cause both cosmetic and functional
problems (sensitivity etc). The teeth affected will depend on the cause
of the erosion, eg acid reflux will usually affect lingual and palatal
surfaces, sucking lemons will affect the {*filter*} surface of anterior
teeth etc.
I second Amatus in that a mixture of acid and sugar working together is
a killer combination.
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:17:32 GMT |
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Mark & Steven Bornfel
#7 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Quote:
> Hmmm, what is the difference between decay and erosion?
As the term is generally applied, erosion is a surface phenomenon characterized by loss of tooth structure characterized by demineralization and wear. Decay is a bacterial phenomenon; it is also characterized by demineralization, but significant structural loss is due to undermining of enamel by destruction of dentin underneath. There is invasion of the dentinal tubules by the bacteria, and the demineralization occurs behind the advancing front of bacterial invasion. Because the primary etiology is different, the lesions will look different and will present in different patterns and locations. Steve
Quote: > Id say, the _acid_ contained in the soda/cola will contribute to
> erosion (dissolution of enamel from whole tooth surfaces) while _sugar_
> will be metabolized locally at a small part of a tooth surface by plague
> bacteria, which thereby slowly create a hole (decay). These (certain
> types of) bacteria themselves have to be able to survive in the acidic
> environment they create.
> Peter
> -----------------------------------
> Amatus Cremona schrieb:
>>Sugar is metabolized into an acid in the final steps of the biochemical
>>metabolism by bacteria. Sugar is also converted into sticky glyco-proteins
>>which stick to the side to the tooth very well. Now you saturate that
>>glyco-protein with potent acid and the decay occurs even faster than it
>>would in the presence of sugar alone. Do you know why aqua regia is more
>>potent than either nitric acid or hydrochloric acid? Do you know that soda
>>have 3-5 acids mixed in each one?
>>--
>>/
>>Amatus
>>/
>>>I believe the sugar does most of the damage, but the effect of the acid
>>>doesn't help either! I'm unsure of any specific ratings. Regarding diet
>>>soda, if it doesn't contain anything that can be metabolised to acid by
>>>bacteria, it will still be able to cause erosion of the enamel due to
>>>the acid, but not true decay. The specific effect also depend on the
>>>manner of drinking. A person who likes to swish his soda will do more
>>>damage to his teeth.
>>>George
-- Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:31:35 GMT |
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Mark & Steven Bornfel
#8 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Quote:
> Hi Peter, loss of tooth tissue can generally be divided into carious
> and noncarious tooth defects.
> Caries is tooth decay, which needs bacteria to colonise the teeth and
> produce acid, hence it is actually a bacterial disease. Plaque-free
> teeth cannot decay.
> Noncarious defects include everything else, commonly abrasions,
> abfractions, fractures, erosions etc. Erosion is specifically the loss
> of hard tooth tissue due to chemomechanical action that does not
> involve bacteria. It can be caused by acid reflux, taking acidic
> medicines long-term and drinking loads of acidic drinks.
> Erosions are generally not as invasive as decay; if the cause is
> removed then the process will stop, unlike decay, where the infected
> dental tissues must be manually removed in order for the destructive
> process to halt. Erosions can cause both cosmetic and functional
> problems (sensitivity etc). The teeth affected will depend on the cause
> of the erosion, eg acid reflux will usually affect lingual and palatal
> surfaces, sucking lemons will affect the {*filter*} surface of anterior
> teeth etc.
> I second Amatus in that a mixture of acid and sugar working together is
> a killer combination.
Thanks--more complete explanation than mine! Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.***.com/
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:33:45 GMT |
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MSE
#9 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda See the following: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&...
Quote: > Hello. > I'm wondering if anyone here can clear this up as there seems to be some > controversy over the subject. > But what is it within regular 'Cola' drinks that causes the tooth decay > Is it:- > 1) The sugar not the acid. The sugar sticks to the teeth, then bacteria > living within the plaque on the teeth metabolise it steadily producing an > acid, like a factory, around the tooth that then erodes the enamel. > 2) Or is it the acid within the drink in the form of phosphoric and > carbolic (I think the CO2 reacts with the water to form this acid) I know > that Cola drinks are pretty acidic with a Ph of around 4. Some claim it is > this rather than the sugar that causes the bulk of the damage. Others > maintain that the acid within the drinks don't stick to the teeth and are > quickly swallowed and any lingering acidity is quickly neutralised by > saliva. Unlike the acid produced by the bacteria in plaque as a by-product > of metabolising sugar. This acid is highly localised around the teeth and > is constantly being generated until all the sugar has been used. > Which scenario is correct, if any, and if both play a part how are they
> rated i.e is it the phosphoric acid that does 90% and the
> sugar-bacteria-acid pathway that does the remaining 10% etc?
> Thanks.
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:01:45 GMT |
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George Chatzipetro
#10 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda It's too bad they don't list results and conclusion. Do you know what they ended up with? George
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:34:10 GMT |
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MSE
#11 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda You would have to pull the actual paper to know. I have not done so, but I did read a study sometime ago that found that A&W rootbeer was the least harmful to teeth as compared to all sorts of sodas and tea. Tea was among the worst and so were the lemon-lime type drinks. If I can pull the paper, I will let you know.
Quote: > It's too bad they don't list results and conclusion. Do you know what > they ended up with? > George
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:27:47 GMT |
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Amatus Cremon
#12 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda I have that full study scanned on my hard drive if you want to read it. --
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Amatus
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Quote: > It's too bad they don't list results and conclusion. Do you know what > they ended up with? > George
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| Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:38:14 GMT |
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George Chatzipetro
#13 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Oh cheers mate,
alternative method of getting it from you if that's not convenient.
George
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| Wed, 11 Jun 2008 02:09:40 GMT |
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George Chatzipetro
#14 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Well that explains a lot. Tea + NHS = British teeth screwed for life
George
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| Wed, 11 Jun 2008 02:10:56 GMT |
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Amatus Cremon
#15 / 23
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diet soda vs sugared soda Just saw two of my UK patients this morning. They save their dental treatment for when they are in the USA. Says something about the NHS ? --
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Amatus
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Quote: > Well that explains a lot. > Tea + NHS = British teeth screwed for life
> George
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| Sat, 14 Jun 2008 03:45:00 GMT |
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