scaling and root planing... 
Author Message
 scaling and root planing...

Hello Alan and Diane,

Like many procedures, if you need it, then it helps a lot. If you
don't need it, then the effectiveness is considerably less.

Who needs it? It depends on your gums and your dentist, too.

If you have calculus (tartar) then you need to get ALL of it scraped
out of there including the stuff on the roots. Sometimes a regular
prophy does it, other times no. If its too difficult then anesthesia
is necessary - hence scaling and root planing CODE # 4341 or
something.

In other words, its like the car wash. You get the wash and they will
remove some road tar if there are not too many customers behind you.
Detailing is a different procedure. If its a cloudy day and there's no
one behind you, then you almost get the whole detailing for the car
wash price. By the way, detailing is also CODE 4341!

Root planing is sliding the instrument up and down on the root like a
carpenter might do if he's trying to get the door down to the right
size, hence - planing.

By the way, the most important question is usually asked first: What
kind of insurance do you have?

Cheers,

Joel

Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.

PS- Only joking about insurance - my pet peeve!


Quote:
>I can't seem to find very much information about scaling and root planing.
>Where can I find information with statistics as to its effectiveness?  I've
>been hearing horror stories from patients.
>I am trying to make an informed choice.
>Thank you for your time.



Sun, 26 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

Try looking up other terms like

Periodontal therapy
Periodontitis
Chemotheraputic agents in dentistry
Gum disease
Gum treatment

If your dentist does the actual treatment for gum disease then it is in his/her
hands.  If the hygienist does the treatment then it is in his or her hands.
Usually the Dr. does the diagnostics and the hyg does the treatment.

If you do not trust your doctor find another one, if you do not trust your hyg
get another one.  Do not just pick one that gives you a cheaper diagnosis. Big
red flag there.

One other thing people will only talk about how terrible their treatment was.
For every one person you talk to that had it done that was horrible, there are
probably 100 or more that had not trouble at all.  Same with wisdom tooth
extractions and root c{*filter*}therapy.

Shirley Gutkowski RDH
The harder you work, the luckier you are.



Sun, 26 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

I am getting very interested in dentristy - as a patient, not as a dentist.  I was
diagnosed with MS in '92.  I have just completed amalgam removal with a holistic
dentist who follows the Hal Huggins protocol.  I am now doing DMPS chelation
therapy and understand it will take up to a year to determine whether my MS
symptomology is actually mercury toxicity.  If you were me and were witnessing a
steady decline in health, believe me, you would probably pursue this same course
(if you could afford it).  What I want to do here is post the latest entry of my
diary - I have been doing a chronicle of my amalgam removal on
alt.support.mult-scleroisis (back entries can be found on dejanews).

I went through extensive periodontal work - constant "puffy" gums.  Halfway through
amalgam removal I noticed a dramatic improvement in this condition and my
Lhermitte's has eased up considerably (electrical shocks down spine upon flexing of
neck).

I **do no** know yet whether I can make any claims about mercury and MS in my case,
but I wanted to post this entry as I think dentists (like doctors) need to start
listening to patient concerns:

  Well, it is June 09 and I was a half hour early for the dentist.  No traffic.
Today
he had no emergencies ahead of me so I was more or less seen on time.

The first thing the dentist did today was freeze me up - just a skeeter bite of
pain -
this guy is good with the needles.  While we we waiting for the freezing to "take"
he
took an x-ray of the crowned molar.  This is the tooth that he suspected was dead
from
my description of events last time.  (When my dentist in Calgary put the crown on
this
tooth I had intense pain that lasted for 4 days and a week of throb).  The X-rays
looked normal!!!

This made me shake my head.  I reiterated my experience of how the pain had burned
down the shaft of the tooth - I repeated that I thought something was terribly
amiss
with this tooth.  So then the dentist did something very strange.  I was lying in
the
dentist chair.  He had me put my arms up behind my head, and relax them.  He sort
of
shook them.  He brought my wrists together.  And then he said, oh my God, this is
incredible.  Then he had me put my tongue over top of the tooth and he repeated the

above.

When I was back in my normal position, he said that was the most dramatic arm's
length
test he'd ever seen.  And then he said - I agree, the tooth has to go.  Seems this
is
some sort of European test that is used to determine muscle health and it told the
dentist that there was a problem in the tooth!  I know - this was most strange and
something that no other dentist I've ever seen has done.  But he had no doubts that
he
should remove the tooth even though the X-rays showed normal root structure.

First though, was amalgam removal and filling replacment.  More gas masks. More
holding of breath.  Some drilling, aspiration.  A fairly quick procedure.  This guy

makes very economical moves, seems to have everything he needs right at his
fingertips.  So replacement of fillings went smoothly and this dentist is the best
one
I have ever been to as far as making the bite right after the filling replacment.
My
teeth fit together properly after he puts his fillings in, the bite is not altered
at
all.  And contacts between the teeth are excellent which makes flossing easy.

Then came the extraction.  He started to loosen the tooth but I could feel pressure

from the instrument on my gums so he shot in more anesthetic.  We waited a moment,
talked about the concept of painless dentristry.  I have to say I experienced very
little actual pain during my visits.  There has been a feeling of {*filter*} being
done,
of fillings being ripped out en masse, but no real pain.  The most pain has been
after
I get back home - where gums have been sore from the clamps that are fastened
around
the teeth and where the needles go in.  But in that chair, I've really felt only
very
minor twinges of discomfort.  My jaw has been tired afterward from holding it open
so
long.

Anyway, the dentist went back to work, rocked the tooth a bit.  Then he got out his

forceps or whatever the thing is called, the hundred dollar pair of pliers.  The
tooth
practically popped out!!!!  One small tug was all it took.  To which the dentist
said,  "Healthy teeth do not come out that easily...."  He examined the tooth and
could see nothing that indicated decay.  But he said that whatever was going on was

probably microscopic - that two rooted teeth do not let go that easily.  He kept
going
back to the X-rays.  I could tell he was a little disconcerted by the experience.
The
tooth was not a healthy one.

Then he went in to clean up the extraction site - this method of preventing
cavitations that I have explained in previous post.  The 8 burr removes a
millimeter
of bone and encourages the osteoblasts to heal the bone without forming  "dry
sockets"
- another word for cavitations I guess.  This time, he went in with some picks and
I
could feel him pulling in the root holes.  It was a most  strange sensation, but
not
one I could comment on with mouth open and assistant squirting saline solution into

extraction site.

When the dentist finished this - it took a good 15 minutes, he told me the bone was

pathologic - soft.  And he said he was pleased on the way that the whole thing
turned
out - that yes, that tooth was better out of there, but he would not have known
that
from the X-ray.  He doesn't like to pull teeth unnecessarily, so he was very happy
that the tooth deserved to be pulled.  He also said the more he practises
dentistry,
the more he learns to listen to his patients.  It was my insistence that something
was
wrong when they crowned this thing that prompted him to do this muscle testing
which
then indicated that the tooth was bad.

Anyway, believe it or not when he was using the pick, I could sense that the bone
was
soft - that it was not healthy bone so I too am glad the thing is in the garbage
bucket.  This is the tooth that I pinpointed that had work done on it just before I

took my big dive in August of '94.

When I told the dentist  I was rethinking the whole bridge idea, he did not argue
with
me.  He said that they were the best for chewing, but also most expensive.  Two
pulled
teeth would mean two bridges at  $2,500.00 each - gulp.  I told him that I wanted
to
do things over time - that I would like a Flexite partial.  He agreed that this
would
be alright - though it had been such a long time that he did a partial that he
would
need to phone the lab for a cost estimate etc.  He showed me what they look like,
how
they go around the inside of the teeth like a horseshoe and one tooth could be put
in
on either side to replace my missing molars.  Looks fine to me and will probably be

around $800.00 though he wasn't sure.  So I have 2 more dental appointments for
this.
One in July for the impression, one in August when it should be back from the lab.

As I was leaving, I thanked the dentist for LISTENING to me - I **knew** that was
not
a healthy tooth and I am glad to have it gone.  Whatever had gone wrong in that
tooth
was rotting the bone underneath - who wants that situation continuing in their
gums.
This molar has been crowned for 4 years and ump{*filter*} dental appointments never
revealed
the hidden problem.

Then I went off to see the naturopath.  While we talked this guy hooked me up to
his
new machine - an oscillating energy gizmo - I won't describe this bizzare thing and

what it does - I went along with it as it seemed harmless enough.  Since doing that
-
I took my shoes and socks off and rested them on this platform and held onto a
electric ring - my feet have NOT been tingling.  Maybe it short circuits energy
path
or something.  Weird but interesting.  Naturopaths certainly have a radically
different approach to health problems.

The naturopath told me to continue with my garlic, vitamin C, grape seed extract.
He
said I should "pulse" the chlorella - take 9 caps each day, but on the 9th and 10th

days, take **40** - a massive dose that seems to prompt the body into a mercury
dump.
I should also take the MSM as they are finding that it helps the body repair from
mercury poisoning.  He was pleased to hear that I was already doing the B-12.

I was given the DMPS chelation therapy by I.V.  He filled a syringe with the
compound
and then injected it slowly into a vein over about 15 minutes.  He said that it
would
likely make me urinate more and might make the urine smell.  Some people get a
metallic taste in their mouth - but as I was still bleeding from extraction site, I

could not identify anything beyond the briny taste of {*filter*}.

He said the DMPS is the best for mercury removal - that chlorella alone can take 7
years to get all the mercury out.  I will go back in 3-4 weeks for another
treatment
at which time he will do a urine test for mercury levels.  This man seems to have
guided a number of people through mercury detox and answered all my questions
readily.  So I am glad I am seeing him as I am sure that if I run into problems he
will know what I should do.

So all the amalgam is gone!!!  Sent off to the toxic waste dump.  My teeth are
white
(though two are also missing).  I have now had 8 of my {*filter*} teeth pulled.  Once
again, I do not have much pain with the extraction.  It is bleeding, but remarkably

pain free.  The freezing is long gone and I have taken no percodan - and if like
last
time do not expect to.  This is not being macho - there just isn't the need.

Now that I don't have to face the horrendous expense of 2 bridges immediately, I am

feeling very glad about my dental decisions.  I may put the bridges in eventually,
but
this will be a lot easier on the pocketbook and it will give me the chance to see
if
indeed there is an improvement in my symptoms.  The partial can last for years I
understand and I do not have to have healthy teeth filed down for it to be made - a

fact I like!

The naturopath was very adamant ...

read more »



Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

Quote:
>with this tooth.  So then the dentist did something very strange.  I was
>lying in
>the
>dentist chair.  He had me put my arms up behind my head, and relax them.  He
>sort
>of
>shook them.  He brought my wrists together.  And then he said, oh my God,
>this is
>incredible.  Then he had me put my tongue over top of the tooth and he
>repeated the

>above.

>When I was back in my normal position, he said that was the most dramatic
>arm's
>length
>test he'd ever seen.  And then he said - I agree, the tooth has to go.  Seems
>this
>is
>some sort of European test that is used to determine muscle health and it
>told the
>dentist that there was a problem in the tooth!  I know - this was most
>strange and
>something that no other dentist I've ever seen has done.  But he had no
>doubts that
>he
>should remove the tooth even though the X-rays showed normal root structure.

Marilyn,

I hate to say this but EVEN I smell something fishy about this.   How can he
diagnose a tooth problem by extending your arms?   Watch out, as I am
finding out there are dentists out there who may not place your welfare
before theirs.  

Wolfgang



Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

Scary



Wed, 29 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

I like that story.

I had a guy from the Ukraine who had a bad wisdom tooth. By the time
he got to the office he told me that it feels much better. He applied
some garlic to the wrist on the opposite hand from the wisdom tooth.

He told me that this is the accepted treatment in his homeland.

I performed "our accepted treatment" and I extracted the abscessed
tooth.

Cheers,

Joel

Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.

PS- He is a "science teacher" in the Philadelphia public schools!

Quote:

>>with this tooth.  So then the dentist did something very strange.  I was
>>lying in
>>the
>>dentist chair.  He had me put my arms up behind my head, and relax them.  He
>>sort
>>of
>>shook them.  He brought my wrists together.  And then he said, oh my God,
>>this is
>>incredible.  Then he had me put my tongue over top of the tooth and he
>>repeated the

>>above.

>>When I was back in my normal position, he said that was the most dramatic
>>arm's
>>length
>>test he'd ever seen.  And then he said - I agree, the tooth has to go.  Seems
>>this
>>is
>>some sort of European test that is used to determine muscle health and it
>>told the
>>dentist that there was a problem in the tooth!  I know - this was most
>>strange and
>>something that no other dentist I've ever seen has done.  But he had no
>>doubts that
>>he
>>should remove the tooth even though the X-rays showed normal root structure.

>Marilyn,
>I hate to say this but EVEN I smell something fishy about this.   How can he
>diagnose a tooth problem by extending your arms?   Watch out, as I am
>finding out there are dentists out there who may not place your welfare
>before theirs.  
>Wolfgang



Wed, 29 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

Quote:

> Scary

  Found out from a holistic clinic that my dentist was doing kinesiology
- much more common in Europe esp. Germany than here.

Whatever, the bottom line is that the tooth was bad and practically flew
out of my mouth, and I am one happy patient to have it gone.

Holistic dentistry will make inroads in the same way that holistic
approaches are changing allopathic medicine.  It's inevitable.

I have never had my ears pierced - have known for years that I react to
metals.  Cannot wear jewelry, react to it, get rashes, it turns my skin
black.  In retrospect why did I ever think I could have 14 amalgams, two
porcelain  crowns and a nickel bridge in my mouth?  I guess cause no one
ever asked me if I was sensitive to metals.

I have had people from all over the world asking me how to find a
holistic dentist.  The one I have been seeing is unbelievably busy.  I
am grateful to be in an area where the choice was available.  After
seeing the improvement in my gums (years of periodontal work did not do
what amalgam removal has accomplished in 2 months) I will never go back
to a mercury dentist.

I believe economics will create changes more than anything.



Wed, 29 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

Quote:


>> Scary
>  Found out from a holistic clinic that my dentist was doing kinesiology
>- much more common in Europe esp. Germany than here.
>Whatever, the bottom line is that the tooth was bad and practically flew
>out of my mouth, and I am one happy patient to have it gone.

That's the one where you tie the string to your tooth and then tie the
string to the doorknob.

Then you yell, C'mere Mom!

Cheers,'

Joel

```````````````



Wed, 29 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...


Quote:
>I hate to say this but EVEN I smell something fishy about this.   How can
he
>diagnose a tooth problem by extending your arms?

Applied Kinesiology.

Yet another area in diagnostics that dentists, incredible though it may
seem, are usually 101% ignorant.

That extra 1% is logarithmic in its effect on patient well being.....

Hard to believe I know!



Wed, 29 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

So then the dentist did something very strange.  I was lying in
the dentist chair.  He had me put my arms up behind my head, and relax
them.  He sort of shook them.  He brought my wrists together.  And
then he said, oh my God, this is incredible.  Then he had me put my
tongue over top of the tooth and he repeated the above.

When I was back in my normal position, he said that was the most
dramatic arm's length test he'd ever seen.  And then he said - I
agree, the tooth has to go.  Seems this is some sort of European test
that is used to determine muscle health and it told the dentist that
there was a problem in the tooth!

======================

I'm sorry, Marilyn

Is this what you mean when you say "holistic dentist?"

Cheers,

Joel

``````````



Thu, 30 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

Hi Dr. Charles,

Has it been tested using our current "scientific method?"

You know, that's the one which separates efficaceous treatment from
bogus treatment.

Cheers,

Joel

Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.

```````````````````````````````

Quote:


>>I hate to say this but EVEN I smell something fishy about this.   How can
>he
>>diagnose a tooth problem by extending your arms?
>Applied Kinesiology.
>Yet another area in diagnostics that dentists, incredible though it may
>seem, are usually 101% ignorant.
>That extra 1% is logarithmic in its effect on patient well being.....
>Hard to believe I know!



Thu, 30 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

Marilyn Bachmann schrieb:

Quote:
>  He had me put my arms up behind my head, and relax them.  He sort
> of
> shook them.  He brought my wrists together.  And then he said, oh my God,

Oh my god. Indeed. Sounds like "applied kinesiology". Its VooDoo.

Hannes



Thu, 30 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 scaling and root planing...

"How do you do . . . that voodoo . . . that voodoo . . . that you do .
. . . . .

la . . . la . . . la . . . .

Over here, it almost sounds like {*filter*} harrassment or something that
might be considered quite inappropriate.

I'd be careful if any associate did that in my office . . .

Cheers,

Joel

Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.

``````````

Quote:

>Marilyn Bachmann schrieb:
>>  He had me put my arms up behind my head, and relax them.  He sort
>> of
>> shook them.  He brought my wrists together.  And then he said, oh my God,
>Oh my god. Indeed. Sounds like "applied kinesiology". Its VooDoo.
>Hannes



Thu, 30 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT
 
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