Low DHEA level related to heart disease? 
Author Message
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

I just got back the results from some {*filter*} tests given by a holistic MD that I
went to for advice and a 2nd opinion on treatment of my recently diagnosed
Atrial Fibrillation.  He did several {*filter*} tests that my GP had never done (I
am a 57 year old male) and all were normal except my DHEA level.  

It is 70 and this doctor thinks that it should be in the 200 to 250 range.
Therefore he has prescribed DHEA hormone supplements for a month and we are
going to check it again.  

My real question is whether any of you have any anecdotal evidence that would
suggest this low of a level in DHEA could cause Afib, or worsen it.  My heart
was checked out with EKG, echo, stress tests, etc. and it seems to be perfectly
normal.  There is no underlying heart disease that is causing my Afib, which
now seems to be chronic.  My GP and cardiologist wanted me to immediately go on
a regimen of Lanoxin and then a series of shock treatments to try and get me
back into sinus rhythm.  I refused both of these courses of action, at least
for now, since I have no significant risk at this time.  Even though my Afib
seems to be chronic, my actual pulse rate is quite normal - in the 70's.
However, my hearbeat is quite erratic with lots of skipped beats.  Anyway, that
is the reason I sought out this holistic MD (who specializes in heart
conditions) to try and ferret out the cause of the problem, rather than simply
treat the symptoms.  I am taking a single 325 mg aspirin daily as a precaution
against stroke.

I had never heard of DHEA before and am a bit shocked that, if it is as
important as my little research indicates and is as common a problem in older
people at it seems, "regular" doctors seem to ignore it and the supplements
totally.

What am I missing here?

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders



Tue, 25 May 2004 07:34:12 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?
Your symptoms from atrial fibrillation is unlikely to go away with DHEA
hormone supplementation.  Moreover, the longer you wait, the less likely
anyone will be able to get you back into sinus rhythm and then your
condition will truly become chronic and at some point you will need to
be anticoagulated with coumadin rather than aspirin to prevent stroke.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist in Private Practice
http://www.***.com/

Quote:

> I just got back the results from some {*filter*} tests given by a holistic MD that I
> went to for advice and a 2nd opinion on treatment of my recently diagnosed
> Atrial Fibrillation.  He did several {*filter*} tests that my GP had never done (I
> am a 57 year old male) and all were normal except my DHEA level.  

> It is 70 and this doctor thinks that it should be in the 200 to 250 range.
> Therefore he has prescribed DHEA hormone supplements for a month and we are
> going to check it again.  

> My real question is whether any of you have any anecdotal evidence that would
> suggest this low of a level in DHEA could cause Afib, or worsen it.  My heart
> was checked out with EKG, echo, stress tests, etc. and it seems to be perfectly
> normal.  There is no underlying heart disease that is causing my Afib, which
> now seems to be chronic.  My GP and cardiologist wanted me to immediately go on
> a regimen of Lanoxin and then a series of shock treatments to try and get me
> back into sinus rhythm.  I refused both of these courses of action, at least
> for now, since I have no significant risk at this time.  Even though my Afib
> seems to be chronic, my actual pulse rate is quite normal - in the 70's.
> However, my hearbeat is quite erratic with lots of skipped beats.  Anyway, that
> is the reason I sought out this holistic MD (who specializes in heart
> conditions) to try and ferret out the cause of the problem, rather than simply
> treat the symptoms.  I am taking a single 325 mg aspirin daily as a precaution
> against stroke.

> I had never heard of DHEA before and am a bit shocked that, if it is as
> important as my little research indicates and is as common a problem in older
> people at it seems, "regular" doctors seem to ignore it and the supplements
> totally.

> What am I missing here?

> Thanks,

>{*filter*} Schneiders



Tue, 25 May 2004 09:19:34 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?
While I certainly do not expect my AFib to abate with DHEA hormone
supplementation, it seems obvious that I have a deficiency there that needs
correcting.  I was simply asking if there could be any tie-in between that and
my AFib.  Why is it that the vast majority of you cardiologists prefer to
*first* treat the symptoms with powerful {*filter*} that have significant history of
actually worsening the situation for many people with AF?  In my case, with a
heart rate that stays in the 70 bpm range, why would I be initially treated
with a drug (Lanoxin) that decreases the heart rate?  Why do the vast majority
of MD's totally eschew the possibility that supplements can have benefits to
sufferers of AF?  

I have a feeling that the primary reason for most MD's following the same
initial course of action for all patients is simply to cover their asses
against the possibility of a subsequent lawsuit.  If the "normal" protocol is
followed, and it doesn't work, then at least the doctor can say that they did
what he was supposed to do.  Then if the patient hasn't died from the failed
"cure" they can try something else.  I don't like being experimented on with
powerful and sometimes irrevocable solutions.

AF is not typically life-threatening, with the exception of the slightly
elevated incidence of a stroke, and the negatives from digitalis and/or
cardioversion are just about as bad and far more numerous.  I have something in
my autonomic system that is causing an electrical imbalance in my heart
function, and I probably have had this for many years on an intermittent basis.
 It has been missed by doctors (or not manifesting itself at the time) for
years, and now that it has become chronic and finally diagnosed, it seems a bit
short-sighted for you or any other MD to simply state that achieving sinus
rhythm as *quickly as possible* is the best and only course of action.  

If need be I will live with this condition for enough time until the ablation
techniques (or something else) have been perfected.  In the meantime, I will
eat right, live right, lessen my stress, and take my supplements because all of
this has already proven their efficacy.  

There are many possible causes for my AF and there is no reason to think that
once the cause is isolated the condition will continue.  It will almost
certainly return even if I am forced into sinus rhythm as long as the primary
cause is still untended.  In fact, since my AF has become more frequent until
becoming chronic a few weeks ago, it seems certain that whatever caused it
finally reached a bad enough point to prevent me from going back into sinus
rhythm.  Therefore, I can not see cardioversion or anything else really being
much of an option for me at this time.

Now if you have any concrete suggestions that might help me, other than
attempting to frighten me with the thought of taking coumadin, I certainly am
open to hearing them

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders

Quote:
>Your symptoms from atrial fibrillation is unlikely to go away with DHEA
>hormone supplementation.  Moreover, the longer you wait, the less likely
>anyone will be able to get you back into sinus rhythm and then your
>condition will truly become chronic and at some point you will need to
>be anticoagulated with coumadin rather than aspirin to prevent stroke.

>--
>Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>Cardiologist in Private Practice
> http://www.***.com/

>> I just got back the results from some {*filter*} tests given by a holistic MD
>that I
>> went to for advice and a 2nd opinion on treatment of my recently diagnosed
>> Atrial Fibrillation.  He did several {*filter*} tests that my GP had never done
>(I
>> am a 57 year old male) and all were normal except my DHEA level.  

>> It is 70 and this doctor thinks that it should be in the 200 to 250 range.
>> Therefore he has prescribed DHEA hormone supplements for a month and we are
>> going to check it again.  

>> My real question is whether any of you have any anecdotal evidence that
>would
>> suggest this low of a level in DHEA could cause Afib, or worsen it.  My
>heart
>> was checked out with EKG, echo, stress tests, etc. and it seems to be
>perfectly
>> normal.  There is no underlying heart disease that is causing my Afib,
>which
>> now seems to be chronic.  My GP and cardiologist wanted me to immediately
>go on
>> a regimen of Lanoxin and then a series of shock treatments to try and get
>me
>> back into sinus rhythm.  I refused both of these courses of action, at
>least
>> for now, since I have no significant risk at this time.  Even though my
>Afib
>> seems to be chronic, my actual pulse rate is quite normal - in the 70's.
>> However, my hearbeat is quite erratic with lots of skipped beats.  Anyway,
>that
>> is the reason I sought out this holistic MD (who specializes in heart
>> conditions) to try and ferret out the cause of the problem, rather than
>simply
>> treat the symptoms.  I am taking a single 325 mg aspirin daily as a
>precaution
>> against stroke.

>> I had never heard of DHEA before and am a bit shocked that, if it is as
>> important as my little research indicates and is as common a problem in
>older
>> people at it seems, "regular" doctors seem to ignore it and the supplements
>> totally.

>> What am I missing here?

>> Thanks,

>>{*filter*} Schneiders



Tue, 25 May 2004 11:24:57 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

Quote:

>> There are many possible causes for my AF and there is no reason to think
>that
>> once the cause is isolated the condition will continue.  It will almost
>> certainly return even if I am forced into sinus rhythm as long as the
>primary
>> cause is still untended.

You responded:

Quote:
>Low DHEA is not a known cause of atrial fibrillation.

Yes, I know that and as I stated am not anticipating any DHEA supplementation
to improve my AF.  However, *something* has caused this electrical problem and
you did not address the fact that as long as this "something" is left untended
the AF will most likely return even if I am cardioverted back into temporary
sinus rhythm.  Usually this temporary sinus rhythm is very short lived - often
a matter of a few hours.  Not a very efficient method of cure for AF, in my
opinion.

Quote:
>Suggesting you follow the recommendations of your doctors is the most
>concrete suggestion that I can hope to offer you.

I am following the recommendation of one of my MD's.  The others started me on
Lanoxin the very day of my initial diagnosis.  Why would I want to follow their
advice if that was the best that they could offer?

Thanks for your addressing my points.  I really do appreciate it, even though
you seem to be stuck on refuting everything I say with the DHEA response.  I am
not looking for DHEA supplementation to be a magic elixir, and I do appreciate
the references you provided as to the need for DHEA augmentation.  The DHEA
supplement that I am taking was purchased from a compounding pharmacy and is
not off the shelf, per my doctor's instruction.

Dick Schneiders

Dick Schneiders



Tue, 25 May 2004 19:58:05 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

Quote:

> Yes, I know that and as I stated am not anticipating any DHEA supplementation
> to improve my AF.  However, *something* has caused this electrical problem and
> you did not address the fact that as long as this "something" is left untended
> the AF will most likely return even if I am cardioverted back into temporary
> sinus rhythm.  Usually this temporary sinus rhythm is very short lived - often
> a matter of a few hours.  Not a very efficient method of cure for AF, in my
> opinion.

Actually, a good number of folks will stay in sinus if the cardioversion
is done within a couple of months of onset.  And, failing that, there
are medications to keep folks in sinus after cardioversion.  As for the
causes of AF, I describe them on my web site.

Quote:
> I am following the recommendation of one of my MD's.  The others started me on
> Lanoxin the very day of my initial diagnosis.  Why would I want to follow their
> advice if that was the best that they could offer?

The MDs that are recommending cardioversion to you are on target.  The
"doctor" telling you that taking DHEA will correct the AF is not on target.

Quote:

> Thanks for your addressing my points.  I really do appreciate it, even though
> you seem to be stuck on refuting everything I say with the DHEA response.  I am
> not looking for DHEA supplementation to be a magic elixir, and I do appreciate
> the references you provided as to the need for DHEA augmentation.  The DHEA
> supplement that I am taking was purchased from a compounding pharmacy and is
> not off the shelf, per my doctor's instruction.

Buying DHEA from a compounding pharmacy does not make it the treatment
for AF.
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist in Private Practice
http://www.heartmdphd.com


Wed, 26 May 2004 13:38:45 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

Quote:
>The MDs that are recommending cardioversion to you are on target.

Also, it is important to note that I have Lone Atrial Fibrillation, even though
it appears to have become chronic in the past few weeks.  Most of the research
I have read clearly states that cardioversion is not very effective for
sufferers of LAF and frequently does not produce sinus rhythm.

Does your website differentiate LAF from AF resulting from an underlying heart
condition?

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders



Thu, 27 May 2004 03:50:25 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

wrote... more than he should have.

Dr. Chung, may I suggest that it's time to ignore this
antagonistic, argumentative individual and not spend your
precious time trying to help him. He's obviously prejudiced
against physicians.

He originally asked, and I quote, "What am I missing here?".
You told him, and told him well. In doing so you helped
educate all of us, but{*filter*} doesn't want to hear it.

We all appreciate your valuable and voluntary contributions
to this group. Many thanks!

Harry

Quote:


>> Yes, I know that and as I stated am not anticipating any DHEA supplementation
>> to improve my AF.  However, *something* has caused this electrical problem and
>> you did not address the fact that as long as this "something" is left untended
>> the AF will most likely return even if I am cardioverted back into temporary
>> sinus rhythm.  Usually this temporary sinus rhythm is very short lived - often
>> a matter of a few hours.  Not a very efficient method of cure for AF, in my
>> opinion.

>Actually, a good number of folks will stay in sinus if the cardioversion
>is done within a couple of months of onset.  And, failing that, there
>are medications to keep folks in sinus after cardioversion.  As for the
>causes of AF, I describe them on my web site.

>> I am following the recommendation of one of my MD's.  The others started me on
>> Lanoxin the very day of my initial diagnosis.  Why would I want to follow their
>> advice if that was the best that they could offer?

>The MDs that are recommending cardioversion to you are on target.  The
>"doctor" telling you that taking DHEA will correct the AF is not on target.

>> Thanks for your addressing my points.  I really do appreciate it, even though
>> you seem to be stuck on refuting everything I say with the DHEA response.  I am
>> not looking for DHEA supplementation to be a magic elixir, and I do appreciate
>> the references you provided as to the need for DHEA augmentation.  The DHEA
>> supplement that I am taking was purchased from a compounding pharmacy and is
>> not off the shelf, per my doctor's instruction.

>Buying DHEA from a compounding pharmacy does not make it the treatment
>for AF.

harry2636 at home spot com


Thu, 27 May 2004 07:42:03 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

Quote:


> wrote... more than he should have.

> Dr. Chung, may I suggest that it's time to ignore this
> antagonistic, argumentative individual and not spend your
> precious time trying to help him. He's obviously prejudiced
> against physicians.

> He originally asked, and I quote, "What am I missing here?".
> You told him, and told him well. In doing so you helped
> educate all of us, but{*filter*} doesn't want to hear it.

> We all appreciate your valuable and voluntary contributions
> to this group. Many thanks!

> Harry

Harry,

Argumentative/antagonistic people need doctors too :-)

Anecdotally, they seem to have more heart disease.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist in Private Practice
http://www.***.com/



Fri, 28 May 2004 10:29:22 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

snip
Quote:

>Argumentative/antagonistic people need doctors too :-)

You are to be commended.

Quote:
>Anecdotally, they seem to have more heart disease.

Figures.

Harry, PhD
harry2636 at home spot com



Fri, 28 May 2004 11:24:12 GMT
 Low DHEA level related to heart disease?

Quote:



>> wrote... more than he should have.

>> Dr. Chung, may I suggest that it's time to ignore this
>> antagonistic, argumentative individual and not spend your
>> precious time trying to help him. He's obviously prejudiced
>> against physicians.

>> He originally asked, and I quote, "What am I missing here?".
>> You told him, and told him well. In doing so you helped
>> educate all of us, but{*filter*} doesn't want to hear it.

>> We all appreciate your valuable and voluntary contributions
>> to this group. Many thanks!

>> Harry

> Harry,

> Argumentative/antagonistic people need doctors too :-)

> Anecdotally, they seem to have more heart disease.

Even though the original poster may ignore the responses
he got, as a lurker I found the thread very useful.
Thanks Dr. Chung!

Cheers,
bob



Fri, 28 May 2004 21:46:04 GMT
 
 [ 12 post ] 

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