Medical, Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Tom Tedri
#1 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

->I also was a hyper kid in elementary school, so during the school year
->I was on ritalin with no noticable side effects.(No bad ones, anyway).
->On the other hand, my parents only gave it to me on school days, so
->that I could concentrate on classes. I only was on it for about a
->year, though. It did seem to work, surprisingly. I wouldn't give the
->stuff to a kid of my own,anyway.

I was also one of the kids given Ritalin by drug researchers
when they were testing it during the 1960s (proof postive it's
bad stuff :-) While it seemed to me just a pleasant form of
speed, I would advise parents not to let these mad scientists
masquerading as doctors give psycho-active {*filter*} to your
kids. They don't *really* know what effects the {*filter*} will
have, the brain is much too complex to be certain.

The bottom line is, don't jump into drug therapy at the
first sign of behavi{*filter*}problems in children. The effects
are incalculable, and {*filter*} should be a last resort. Try
spending more time listening and communicating with your
kids before messing with their brain chemistry.

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"When it came to physical work you cannot imagine anything more lazy
than a fighter pilot in his sixth year of service." --Adolf Galland

Sat, 05 Dec 1992 18:54:01 GMT

Isaac Rabinovit
#2 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

>I was also one of the kids given Ritalin by drug researchers
>when they were testing it during the 1960s (proof postive it's
>bad stuff :-) While it seemed to me just a pleasant form of
>speed, I would advise parents not to let these mad scientists
>masquerading as doctors give psycho-active {*filter*} to your
>kids. They don't *really* know what effects the {*filter*} will
>have, the brain is much too complex to be certain.

So you would ban all {*filter*} that affect the brain? You'd be
killing a lot of people, including me.

Quote:

>The bottom line is, don't jump into drug therapy at the
>first sign of behavi{*filter*}problems in children. The effects
>are incalculable, and {*filter*} should be a last resort.

Absolutely correct. But that last resort is still sometimes
necessary -- whatever Nancy Reagan says.

Sun, 06 Dec 1992 02:01:44 GMT

Gordon E. Ban
#3 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

>The bottom line is, don't jump into drug therapy at the
>first sign of behavi{*filter*}problems in children. The effects
>are incalculable, and {*filter*} should be a last resort. Try
>spending more time listening and communicating with your
>kids before messing with their brain chemistry.

The effects of putting a kid on Ritalin by mistake are hardly
incalculable. In fact, these {*filter*} have no permanent effects
on the nervous system. This is not to say that they aren't abused.
The problem is that the range of normal kids will include a lot who
won't be perfect angels and sit quietly in school. Especially boys.
It doesn't mean they are hyperactive and need medication, but the
teachers who have to deal with these kids will press for it under
threat of putting the kids into "special ed" classes. However,
there are kids who truly are hyperactive to the point of being
disabled as well as intolerable socially. Many if not most of
these respond dramatically to the sympathomimetic amines, including
Ritalin, and treating them can make the difference between a kid
who is unable to concentrate well enough to go to school and one
who can live a fairly normal life. The point is, the kids should
be seen by a pediatric neurologist or pediatric psychiatrist and
not just be put on the stuff by a GP or school doc.

Sun, 06 Dec 1992 05:07:41 GMT

Craig Wern
#4 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Ritalin: it makes a lot of {*filter*}s hyperactive at the mere
mention of the word.

But in other related news - I recently read of a very interesting
and valid test for hyperactivity. Inability to behave in class or
to concentrate in class or in the presence of {*filter*}s has usually been
the referring complaint, in which case it is subjective based on the
word of an {*filter*}.
What turns out to be a far more reliable predictor of true
hyperactivity could be called the "{*filter*}age Mutant Ninja Turtle" test.
Quite a few children who do not have an attention span long enough to
complete a lesson in school can watch a 30 minute television cartoon in
complete control and with complete attention. Only a small percentage of
children are so hyperactive/compulsive that they are incapable of
watching television sucessfully. It is probably only these children who
should ever be prescribed Ritalin in the first place.

--
Craig Werner (future MD/PhD, 5.5 years down, 2.5 to go)

(1935-14E Eastchester Rd., Bronx NY 10461, 212-931-2517)
"Well, do you see the spaghetti?"

Sun, 06 Dec 1992 08:28:28 GMT

Jack Camp
#5 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

> The effects of putting a kid on Ritalin by mistake are hardly
> incalculable. In fact, these {*filter*} have no permanent effects
> on the nervous system.

They do have permanent effects on the whole body - growth retardation.
Given that, it would be surprising if the nervous system wasn't affected
in some way.

--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6044 work 041 556 1878 home

Sun, 06 Dec 1992 18:21:08 GMT

Gerald Bryan (Denv
#6 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

>...What turns out to be a far more reliable predictor of true
>hyperactivity could be called the "{*filter*}age Mutant Ninja Turtle" test.

Great ! It's so easy to label someone as having an "attention deficit
disorder" when we find they don't pay attention to the things we think
they SHOULD be paying attention to (like, my mom thinks I should pay
attention to prepositions at the end of sentences...).

--
| Gerald Bryan, Secretary | "Seeking to bring peace to the War on |
| No More Drug War Foundation | {*filter*} via controlled legalization & |
| 2045 Kearney Street | rational, balanced drug education." |
| Denver, CO 80207-3919 | 303/388-5495 days, 394-3930 evenings. |

Sun, 06 Dec 1992 21:20:23 GMT

Isaac Rabinovit
#7 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

> What turns out to be a far more reliable predictor of true
>hyperactivity could be called the "{*filter*}age Mutant Ninja Turtle" test.
>Quite a few children who do not have an attention span long enough to
>complete a lesson in school can watch a 30 minute television cartoon in
>complete control and with complete attention. Only a small percentage of
>children are so hyperactive/compulsive that they are incapable of
>watching television sucessfully. It is probably only these children who
>should ever be prescribed Ritalin in the first place.

Sorry, but I know a hyperactive child who's also a video droid. Of course,
he figits a lot...

Mon, 07 Dec 1992 03:02:05 GMT

Isaac Rabinovit
#8 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

>Great ! It's so easy to label someone as having an "attention deficit
>disorder" when we find they don't pay attention to the things we think
>they SHOULD be paying attention to (like, my mom thinks I should pay
>attention to prepositions at the end of sentences...).

Like you, I'm sceptical of the scientific theories behind ADD, because
the basic idea is so nebulous and poorly defined. But you're wrong
if you think that physicians diagnose ADD without a *lot* of consideration.

I *have* heard quick glib diagnoses of ADD -- from my 6th grade teacher,
who used it to explain most of her problem kids. (She called it
"Minimal Brain Damage," the "scientific" term at the time.) But that's
hardly the same thing. People with the least qualification to issue
psychiatric diagnoses are always the quickest to do so. Ever been
called "neurotic" or "compulsive" or "insecure" because of you refused
to drive faster (or slower), or paid for a newspaper when you didn't
have to, or ate all your vegetables... But I digress.

Mon, 07 Dec 1992 09:34:38 GMT

Gordon E. Ban
#9 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

>> The effects of putting a kid on Ritalin by mistake are hardly
>> incalculable. In fact, these {*filter*} have no permanent effects
>> on the nervous system.

>They do have permanent effects on the whole body - growth retardation.
>Given that, it would be surprising if the nervous system wasn't affected
>in some way.

The growth retardation has been reported, but not established in
controlled studies as being due to the Ritalin. Since the brains
are already different in hyperactive children the Ritalin may not
be the cause of the growth retardation (which is not severe). The
mechanisms could be several: for weight retardation, it is clear
that sympathomimetic amines suppress appetite. The kids are hardly
emaciated, however. Since dopaminergic neurons play a large role
in hypothalamic function, they could easily exert effects on hormones
leading to growth retardation. So I agree the Ritalin is a plausible
cause of any growth effects, but it should still be established.
However, the chemical and hormonal changes that can influence growth
would not normally be expected to cause permanent changes in the nervous
system. It is far easier to effect permanent changes to bone (determiner
of height) than brain by hormonal means at the age we are talking about.
A bit too much sex hormone will do it, for example, or other steroids.
To change brain, the hormone must operate on a fetus, or possibly very
young infant, according to our present knowledge.

While losing an inch off your final {*filter*} height might not be a good
thing at all (especially if you are short anyhow), it is hardly
incalculable, and might be better than not getting an education.

Tue, 08 Dec 1992 23:38:17 GMT

Steve Dy
#10 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

The effects of stimulants on childhood growth are generally
reversible if the treatment is discontinued sufficiently early
before the epiphytes fuse. Whether this is due to a simple
effect on appetite or some more complex phenomenon isn't clear
yet.

In any event, this is from chronic administration over a period of
years. You are not going to see any problems from a short-term
evaluation of the effects of the drug (presuming that the child
has been screened appropriately.)

--
Steve Dyer

Wed, 09 Dec 1992 01:33:58 GMT

Bob Chur
#11 / 11

Amphetimines and hyper kids (Ritalin)

Quote:

> The bottom line is, don't jump into drug therapy at the
> first sign of behavi{*filter*}problems in children. The effects
> are incalculable, and {*filter*} should be a last resort. Try
> spending more time listening and communicating with your
> kids before messing with their brain chemistry.

I apologize for getting off of the "alt.{*filter*}" path but I've wondered
about something along these lines for quite a while. A friend of mine
teaches in a rural school where the vast majority of the children are
on welfare. In this area you are given a "green card" when you go on
welfare and all medical expenses are paid by the state. At the first
sign of unruliness among these children the local doctor refers them to
a clinic (always the same one) where a CAT scan is administered. As far
as I can tell nothing has ever been discovered. Is this standard practice?
Are these people really pursuing a course of action that may help these
children or just buying a new posche at the expense of the taxpayer and
discomfort of the children?

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Thu, 10 Dec 1992 12:07:08 GMT