Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news) 
Author Message
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Ivan and others,

        I too would like to see a better category for depression than
<mental illness>.

        I'm don't mind <illness> although that conjures a
flat-on-your-back image that may not be appropriate. The advantage of
<illness> is that it may give the sufferer the permission they need to
stop trying to _snap out of it_ and go ahead and get treated. Disorder is
okay too.

        <Mental> is all wrong. Sleeping too little and too long, having no
appetite, nausea, and so on, are physical symptoms. Why are diabetics and
hypoglycaemics and people on steroids not called mentally ill when their
condition makes them grouchy? Their symptoms are considered <purely
physical> (whatever that means) and therefore legitimate.

        I'm not fond of <mood> disorder. First of all, I find that too
limiting. What if my mood is numbness? What if I switch into a better mood
at work, and sink to the depths when I'm at home alone? My depression is
bigger than my immediate mood. Mood seems a fleeting thing.
        Also, I'm unclear on which moods are good and bad. I feel fine
when I'm in a grouchy mood; people around me may not think my mood is
great! When I blasted home last night after a union meeting, my boyfriend
ducked, but I was enjoying myself (I have to admit.)

        I also don't like <behavourial>. That seems judgemental, that the
problem is my behaviour, so I should behave better. Over- or undereating
may not be good, but is sleeping-in bad? Is crying bad? Do we want to
eradicate these behaviours?  Concrete behaviours are only part of
depression. Part of my problem over the years was that I repressed even
depression. I had to get seriously depressed before my condition was overt
enough to warrant treatment. (Of course, the invention of those darling
SSRI's helped, too!)

        Oh, I'm hard to please. So what do I like? How about <whole body
disorder/illness>? Or, if that sounds to airy-fairy, <system illness>,
<general illness>. Or just neurological disorder?

        So what do other think? Let's brainstorm

--
 --------------------------/\__/\--------------------------------

 Alberta, Canada _/`_____   =^= /           Newfoundlander Abroad
 ---------------<_______>__m_m_>---------------------------------



Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:27:18 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:

>Ivan and others,

>    I too would like to see a better category for depression than
><mental illness>.

>    I'm don't mind <illness> although that conjures a
>flat-on-your-back image that may not be appropriate. The advantage of
><illness> is that it may give the sufferer the permission they need to
>stop trying to _snap out of it_ and go ahead and get treated. Disorder is
>okay too.

>    <Mental> is all wrong. Sleeping too little and too long, having no
>appetite, nausea, and so on, are physical symptoms. Why are diabetics and
>hypoglycaemics and people on steroids not called mentally ill when their
>condition makes them grouchy? Their symptoms are considered <purely
>physical> (whatever that means) and therefore legitimate.

>    I'm not fond of <mood> disorder. First of all, I find that too
>limiting. What if my mood is numbness? What if I switch into a better mood
>at work, and sink to the depths when I'm at home alone? My depression is
>bigger than my immediate mood. Mood seems a fleeting thing.
>    Also, I'm unclear on which moods are good and bad. I feel fine
>when I'm in a grouchy mood; people around me may not think my mood is
>great! When I blasted home last night after a union meeting, my boyfriend
>ducked, but I was enjoying myself (I have to admit.)

>    I also don't like <behavourial>. That seems judgemental, that the
>problem is my behaviour, so I should behave better. Over- or undereating
>may not be good, but is sleeping-in bad? Is crying bad? Do we want to
>eradicate these behaviours?  Concrete behaviours are only part of
>depression. Part of my problem over the years was that I repressed even
>depression. I had to get seriously depressed before my condition was overt
>enough to warrant treatment. (Of course, the invention of those darling
>SSRI's helped, too!)

>    Oh, I'm hard to please. So what do I like? How about <whole body
>disorder/illness>? Or, if that sounds to airy-fairy, <system illness>,
><general illness>. Or just neurological disorder?

>    So what do other think? Let's brainstorm

>--
> --------------------------/\__/\--------------------------------

> Alberta, Canada _/`_____   =^= /           Newfoundlander Abroad
> ---------------<_______>__m_m_>---------------------------------

Which came first. The "chemical imbalance", or the symtoms that are associated with it?
I mean, isn't it possible that if you think negatively for extended periods of time your brain
chemistry will be altered? Is it possible that a schitzophrenic started having heightened
perception, and that, in turn distorted their actions and behavior.
Just a thought.

amanda



Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:40:23 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:

> [...]
>                    Neurobehavi{*filter*}Disorders

>          For some time, I have been using the phrase "neuro-behavi{*filter*}
> disorder" when answering questions from my patients with ADD, depres-
> sion, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia and severe personality
> disorders.  At some point in their treatment most patients ask, "Do I
> have a mental disease?" or "Am I mentally ill?" or "Exactly what is
> the matter with me, do I have a mental disorder?"  
> [...]                                                                    

>         I welcome comments on this proposal.

    I do not have a problem applying the term "mentally ill" to myself (I
am manic-depressive with psychotic tendencies), but I do not like the
term "neuro-behavi{*filter*}disorder."  To me, it puts the emphasis on
behavior, whereas my thinking is that changes in my behavior are
*consequences* of my illness, not the distinguishing feature of it.  
Granted, "mental illness" has a stigma attached to it, but I do not think
playing word games will take care of that problem.

Paul Bartlett



Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:17:01 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:

>                    Neurobehavi{*filter*}Disorders

Sounds good. Behavioural though, that is vague. Mental (covert) or
physical (overt) or both?

--

----- end post - *** anonymous and encrypted email accepted ***



Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:35:58 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

:       Oh, I'm hard to please. So what do I like? How about <whole body
: disorder/illness>? Or, if that sounds to airy-fairy, <system illness>,
: <general illness>. Or just neurological disorder?

:       So what do other think? Let's brainstorm

You can never hold a name to sound good as long as the symptoms are used
as general demeaning references.  Technical words for low intelligence
like idiot do not hold up as a non-judgmental word after the public
catches on to it.  They like to use the word to accuse another for
doing something moronic.

They used to be handicapped, then disabled, then physically challenged.
Are we then to go down this path and be called "biochemically emotionally
challenged?"  That sort of sounds like calling short people "vertically
challenged," and is getting to be pretty much a standard joke.

I personally call myself "screwed up."  If they don't like it, it's
not really my problem.  I certainly don't wish label hang-ups to be a part
of my biochemical emotional mental challenge.



Fri, 22 Aug 1997 15:05:55 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)
: . . . Can we come up with something besides mental
: illess to describe our condition? Or is that just sugar-coating? My
: militant friend favors mood-disorders.

                        Neurobehavi{*filter*}Disorders

         For some time, I have been using the phrase "neuro-behavi{*filter*}
disorder" when answering questions from my patients with ADD, depres-
sion, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia and severe personality
disorders.  At some point in their treatment most patients ask, "Do I
have a mental disease?" or "Am I mentally ill?" or "Exactly what is
the matter with me, do I have a mental disorder?"  

        I make it a point when answering such questions to introduce
the term "neuro-behavi{*filter*}disorder," and when asked what those words
mean, explain that it is an illness in which thoughts, feelings,
images, and behavior are disturbed largely as the result of a neuro-
chemical difficulties in the brain.  The phrase also allows me to point
out that the term "mental illness" suggests a dualistic approach to
human functioning, and that there is but one self, not a neurobiological
self and a psychological self.

        Many patients write down the words "neuro-behavi{*filter*}disorder"
and at a subsequent session explain to me how for the first time they
felt comfortable talking to their family and friends about their
psychiatric difficulties. I think the wide-spread substitution of the
phrase "neuro- behavi{*filter*}disorder" for the more commonly used phrase
"mental disorder" and "mental illness" would help decrease the stigma
attached to psychiatric disorders.

        I welcome comments on this proposal.

- ivan -
--
--                                                         \\\\          

||-----------------------------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo----||
||                          Ivan Goldberg, MD                ~          ||

|| V: 212 876 7800  /  1346 Lexington Ave NYC 10128  /  F: 212 737 0473 ||
||               http://www.***.com/ ~janne/ikg/              ||
||----------------------------------------------------------------------||



Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:07:21 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)
: Which came first. The "chemical imbalance", or the symtoms that are associated with it?
: I mean, isn't it possible that if you think negatively for extended periods of time your brain
: chemistry will be altered? Is it possible that a schitzophrenic started having heightened
: perception, and that, in turn distorted their actions and behavior.

        Your hypothesis does not explain the children who have
        biological parents with schizophrenia or depression who
        are adopted at birth and grow up in homes where there
        is not schizophrenia or depression and who then go on
        to develop the same symptoms as their parents.  Obviously,
        the neurochemical disturbance comes first.

        - ivan -
--
--                                                         \\\\          

||-----------------------------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo----||
||                          Ivan Goldberg, MD                ~          ||

|| V: 212 876 7800  /  1346 Lexington Ave NYC 10128  /  F: 212 737 0473 ||
||               http://avocado.pc.helsinki.fi/~janne/ikg/              ||
||----------------------------------------------------------------------||



Fri, 22 Aug 1997 03:40:24 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:


>: . . . Can we come up with something besides mental
>: illess to describe our condition? Or is that just sugar-coating? My
>: militant friend favors mood-disorders.
>                    Neurobehavi{*filter*}Disorders
>         For some time, I have been using the phrase "neuro-behavi{*filter*}
>disorder" when answering questions from my patients with ADD, depres-
>sion, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia and severe personality
>disorders.

This shift of classification is based on a shift in available
treatments -- some of these disorders now have excellent drug
palliatives. Note, however, that classification based on "what is
wrong" is a relative thing, relative to the armoury of effective
treatments available. In fact, there is no such thing as THE cause of
any disorder. A disorder arises out a whole nexus of preconditions,
and what we choose to call the cause is that precondition which we
happen to have some means of affecting. For example, the arrival of a
new effective "mental" treatment for what was previously effectively
treated by a drug (or vice versa) doesn't really change the nature of
the disorder.

This shift in classification is probably helpful in that it shifts
people away from what is currently an ineffective mental-intervention
approach to what is currently a more efective drug-based intervention
approach. Thinking of my (probable) ADD as "neurobehavioural disorder"
with drug treatment rather than as fault in my personality (e.g. lazy
& crazy) helped me a lot in coming to terms with it.

But if you have a chronic disorder of any kind, it pays not to use
these relative cause-based characterisations at all, and to look
*everywhere* for solutions.
--

Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
"The mind reigns, but does not govern" -- Paul Valery



Sun, 24 Aug 1997 04:37:34 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:

>> [...]
>>                        Neurobehavi{*filter*}Disorders

>>          For some time, I have been using the phrase "neuro-behavi{*filter*}
>> disorder" when answering questions from my patients with ADD, depres-
>> sion, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia and severe personality
>> disorders.  At some point in their treatment most patients ask, "Do I
>> have a mental disease?" or "Am I mentally ill?" or "Exactly what is
>> the matter with me, do I have a mental disorder?"  
>> [...]                                                                    

>>         I welcome comments on this proposal.

>    I do not have a problem applying the term "mentally ill" to myself (I
>am manic-depressive with psychotic tendencies), but I do not like the
>term "neuro-behavi{*filter*}disorder."  To me, it puts the emphasis on
>behavior, whereas my thinking is that changes in my behavior are
>*consequences* of my illness, not the distinguishing feature of it.  
>Granted, "mental illness" has a stigma attached to it, but I do not think
>playing word games will take care of that problem.

I agree with you Paul and I have trouble understanding why Ivan keeps
floating this "proposal" for this every other month or so... Especially
in a support group. It's just playing with semantics and stigmas will
follow labels, no matter what they are.

-John
--
 John M. Grohol                     Co-moderator sci.psychology.research
                             Employment Editor, InterPsych Newsletter
                         Founder of over a dozen Usenet newsgroups



Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:35:09 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:
>    Your hypothesis does not explain the children who have
>    biological parents with schizophrenia or depression who
>    are adopted at birth and grow up in homes where there
>    is not schizophrenia or depression and who then go on
>    to develop the same symptoms as their parents.  Obviously,
>    the neurochemical disturbance comes first.

Yes, I've wondered about this for a long time: depressing
circumstances, do they really cause depression? There seems to be a lot
of acceptance of the idea as an assumption but is there any real
evidence? I have looked at memoirs and interviews of concentration camp
survivors (Nazi and Khmer) and have read many PW memoirs as well.
Somehow, in the face of overwhelming adversity many of these people do
not get depressed. Is it that the depressives don't survive or don't
write afterward or is it that they don't occur at all. I was once told
that suicide goes down in time of war but it was just in conversation,
no ref.

So, neuro-behavioural, the neuro part looks good but how is
'behavioural' understood in the field? How do most clinicians interpret
this term? Also, what of the general populace?

I usually tell people that my disorder stems from neurological damage
which has psychological effects. If necessary, I explain what little I
know of depression and rage and the associated neurochemical
involvement. This seems to work really well. Once I start talking about
how that may affect my behaviour though it soon becomes a different
story. Many people seem to believe that there is an awful lot of choice
involved in behaviour. This probably has more to do with their personal
ontology than anything. I'm not sure if 'behavioural' is the best term
to use if the purpose of developing a new name is to limit prejudice
and misunderstanding.

Still though, it does sound better than melancholia, and the assorted
pigeon holes that have been developed since.

--

----- end post - *** anonymous and encrypted email accepted ***



Fri, 22 Aug 1997 22:31:59 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:


>: . . . Can we come up with something besides mental
>: illess to describe our condition? Or is that just sugar-coating? My
>: militant friend favors mood-disorders.

>                        Neurobehavi{*filter*}Disorders

How about "neurochemical disorders?"  I think that would be more accurate
and less offensive to some for a few reasons:

--> Generally,the only neurological component of said disorders is the
neurochemistry, or perhaps neuro-electrochemistry. And i don't feel like
saying "neuroelectrochemical disorder."  ;-) Sounds like Frankenstein
or something.

--> There are not always behavi{*filter*}disorders associated with depression,
bipolar disorder, etc.  Though people who suffer from those disorders
are much more predisposed to accompanying behavior disorders, to label
these people as behavior-disordered is, to me, admitting defeat in a way.

--> The term "behavi{*filter*}disorder" carries a very great deal of social
stigma with it. Many people see that as meaning, literally,  that the
person is unable to behave properly within the confines of our society.
Seems a poor choice to foster healing, but i'm probably too politcally
correct and whiny.  ;-)  again.

Personally, i always have preferred the term "affective disorder." Short,
sweet, and accurate. If people begin asking about it, THEN you can go into
the schmiel about neuroelectrochemical or whatever.

                                                         \\\\          

Quote:

>||-----------------------------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo----||
>||                          Ivan Goldberg, MD                ~          ||

>|| V: 212 876 7800  /  1346 Lexington Ave NYC 10128  /  F: 212 737 0473 ||
>||               http://www.***.com/ ~janne/ikg/              ||
>||----------------------------------------------------------------------||

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                                   _/_/        
(Opinions expressed herein are mine, etc.)    


Sat, 23 Aug 1997 15:22:32 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

Quote:
>How about "neurochemical disorders?"

That gets my vote.  The less stigma the better.

Marie



Mon, 25 Aug 1997 02:08:53 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)



: >: . . . Can we come up with something besides mental
: >: illess to describe our condition? Or is that just sugar-coating? My
: >: militant friend favors mood-disorders.
: >
: >                  Neurobehavi{*filter*}Disorders
: >
: <snip>
: >
: >        I welcome comments on this proposal.

        neurochemically imbalanced



Tue, 26 Aug 1997 05:34:57 GMT
 Neurobehavioral Disorders (Was Re: virus and mental illness in news)

What about "affective" disorder?



Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:19:28 GMT
 
 [ 14 post ] 

 Relevant Pages 

1. Dual Diagnosis, mental illness & substance disorders

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4. Psychological Disorder (Mental Illness) Diagnosis Manual -- ** HERE **

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