Anyone watch 60 Minutes tonight on Brain Fingerprinting?

What do you think of the technology?  Is it real science
or quackery?

Should such evidence be used in court?

How can it be abused?

Can you ever get a false positive? False negative? How?

I have not seen the 60 minutes episode. However, I have read a little
about it. If I am not mistaken, all the technology shows is that the
person has a certain memory encoded in his brain. However, there is no
way to determine if the memory is correct or where it came from. So, if
I were accused of say killing someone on the way home from work at a
particular bar which I do not frequent, the test would try to show that
I had a memory of the bar. Perhaps I visited the bar while I was under
investigation. The test could come up positive, because I was in the
bar. Plus I might have memories about the {*filter*} from reading about it
in the papers, seeing it on TV and questions from the Police.

I think the test definitely needs much more validation before using it
in court.

Jeff Utz

Sent via Deja.com http://www.***.com/
Before you buy.

I very much agree.  The test determines (to an unknown degree of
reliability) that the displayed item is "recognized" or "familiar".  But
much depends on the way in which it is applied or interpreted.  And
the show did specify that a witness to a crime would likely have the
same recognition to specific details as the perpetrator. lt is also
probably not at all known whether specific individuals might have
aberrant responses that would generate either false negatives or
false positives.

The current polygraph was also considered highly scientific and,
therefore, accurate when it was first introduced.  And DNA evidence
is much more capable of proving innocence than of guilt.

 i had a few reactions:

 1. advances such as these will chip away at mind-body dualism
        slowly but surely.

 2. the PBS show (mentioned below) had two similar segments:
        Eldelman uses a huge brain-reading machine, and
        the segment on dectecting false memory.

 3. i thought "brain fingerprinting" is a misnomer, because
        it works like a lie-detector (polygraph).

        a true "brain fingerprinting" would work by matching
        remnants of brain activity left at the crime scene
        with the suspect's unique brain activity patterns.

        fin-ger-print \-,print\ n (1859)
        1: the impression of a fingertip on any surface; esp:
                an ink impression of the lines upon the
                fingertip taken for purpose of identification
        2: chromatographic, electrophoretic, or spectrographic
                evidence of the presence or identity of a
                substance; esp :the chromatogram or
                electrophoretogram obtained by cleaving a
                protein by enzymatic action and subjecting
                the resulting collection of peptides to
                two-dimensional chromatography or electrophoresis

--------------------------------------------------------------------
 Edelman on consciousness

 i learned about Edelman's work recently from a PBS show hosted
 by Alan Alda.  it seems that a good book came out in March.

URL:   http://www.krasnow.gmu.edu/ascoli/universe.html

   Abstract: This essay is a commentary on Edelman and Tononi's
   A Universe of Consciousness How Matter Becomes Imagination,
   a scientific book on the mind-body relationship. [...]

   In A Universe of Consciousness (Basic Books, NY, 2000),
   Gerald Edelman and Giulio Tononi face the mind-body problem
   straight up, guiding the readers hand-by-hand through a
   fascinating and exciting journey of 222 intense pages.

--
;;; TANAKA Tomoyuki
;;; http://www.cs.indiana.edu/hyplan/tanaka/GEB/   "GEB" FAQ

 Dear Prof Smullyan,
 I hope this letter finds you in good health.

 I just realized that today using "brain fingerprinting" the
 following exchange (like the one in your "An Epistemological
 Nightmare") is entirely possible where its validity would be
 supported by many respected scientists.

        It is the Year 2000.  Frank is in a laboratory in
        the home of an experimental epistemologist.
        The doctor holds up a photograph of a woman and asks,
        "Do you recognize this person?"

        Frank:  Yes, I do.

        Epistemologist:  Wrong!

        Frank:  What!!?  I'm just saying that she _seems_
                familiar to me.

        Epistemologist:  Again you are wrong.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
 i had a few reactions:

 1. advances such as these will chip away at mind-body dualism
        slowly but surely.

 2. the PBS show (mentioned below) had two similar segments:
        Eldelman uses a huge brain-reading machine, and
        the segment on dectecting false memory.

 3. i thought "brain fingerprinting" is a misnomer, because
        it works like a lie-detector (polygraph).

        a true "brain fingerprinting" would work by matching
        remnants of brain activity left at the crime scene
        with the suspect's unique brain activity patterns.

        fin-ger-print \-,print\ n (1859)
        1: the impression of a fingertip on any surface; esp:
                an ink impression of the lines upon the
                fingertip taken for purpose of identification
        2: chromatographic, electrophoretic, or spectrographic
                evidence of the presence or identity of a
                substance; esp :the chromatogram or
                electrophoretogram obtained by cleaving a
                protein by enzymatic action and subjecting
                the resulting collection of peptides to
                two-dimensional chromatography or electrophoresis

--------------------------------------------------------------------
 Edelman on consciousness

 i learned about Edelman's work recently from a PBS show hosted
 by Alan Alda.  it seems that a good book came out in March.

URL:   http://www.krasnow.gmu.edu/ascoli/universe.html

   Abstract: This essay is a commentary on Edelman and Tononi's
   A Universe of Consciousness How Matter Becomes Imagination,
   a scientific book on the mind-body relationship. [...]

   In A Universe of Consciousness (Basic Books, NY, 2000),
   Gerald Edelman and Giulio Tononi face the mind-body problem
   straight up, guiding the readers hand-by-hand through a
   fascinating and exciting journey of 222 intense pages.

--
;;; TANAKA Tomoyuki
;;; http://www.cs.indiana.edu/hyplan/tanaka/GEB/   "GEB" FAQ

    I can just about guarantee that no two people would have the same
recognition of specific details. This has been shown over and over again with
widely varying eye witness testimony on the streets, in studies and in most
police academies.   There is no reason to think that memories are any less
filtered and interpreted, etc., at the brain fingerprinting level as at any
other.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Writers even write the silences"
       -J. Michael Straczynski