Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...) 
Author Message
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)


Quote:
>   Here in Vancouver, B.C., Canada we have available in the local health stores
>a herbal formulation (is it from QUEST ???) called #21, I think, and it is very
>good in my experience for ordinary colds and flu's and the sore throats that go
>along with them.  I think the idea is to boost the immune response and to
>provide some anti-germ action.  Sounds good to me.
>   It works best for me when I feel the beginning of a scratchy throat coming
>on.  It works better for me than penicillin.

Not surprising, since it can't do less for you than penicillin for a viral
infection, since antibiotics are not indicated for use against such.

Quote:
>And when you do anything, it is wise to start out SMALL and work up.  This can
>minimize initial problems.  I think it would be very unwise to jump in and take
>_lots_ of anything.  It just goes against common sense. It seems that starting
>out slow is a natural way a cautious person would do things.

And a way of doing things that can totally negate any possible positive effects
of the action.  E.g., were you to apply this strategy to using antibiotics,
you could well end up breeding a resistant strain of bacteria rather than
curing the disease.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.



Thu, 09 Jun 1994 22:50:41 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:


>>It won't cure everything from the common cold to AIDS, but it will do
>>some measure of good in virtually any infectious condition.

>[Referring to Echinacea]

>I'm not really clear on whether you mean "immune system tonic" as in
>strengthening the protective energy field that wards off "windstrikes"
>(cold, flus, or just being in an extreme environment for a short time),
>or whether you mean that it is an herb for expelling a pathogenic influence
>that has already invaded.

Echinacea is effective in combating a variety of infectious conditions,
as I stated. It does this, at least partly, through effects on the
immune system that are not necessarily analogous to what antibiotics
do. There is some evidence that echinacea will, for example, increase
t-cell production in humans, as well as enhancing the production of
other immune system cell responses. The former has led many HIV afflicted
to use echinacea as part of their treatment (there is no evidence to
support this use one way or the other-I do not recommend it, I only report
it). All in all, this effect is well described as "tonic" in nature.

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Argus Computing                            GENIE : N.KRAFT3

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Mon, 06 Jun 1994 14:07:59 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:


>>   Here in Vancouver, B.C., Canada we have available in the local health stores
>>a herbal formulation (is it from QUEST ???) called #21, I think, and it is very
>>good in my experience for ordinary colds and flu's and the sore throats that go
>>along with them.  I think the idea is to boost the immune response and to
>>provide some anti-germ action.  Sounds good to me.

>>   It works best for me when I feel the beginning of a scratchy throat coming
>>on.  It works better for me than penicillin.

>Not surprising, since it can't do less for you than penicillin for a viral
>infection, since antibiotics are not indicated for use against such.

>>And when you do anything, it is wise to start out SMALL and work up.  This can
>>minimize initial problems.  I think it would be very unwise to jump in and take
>>_lots_ of anything.  It just goes against common sense. It seems that starting
>>out slow is a natural way a cautious person would do things.

>And a way of doing things that can totally negate any possible positive effects
>of the action.  E.g., were you to apply this strategy to using antibiotics,
>you could well end up breeding a resistant strain of bacteria rather than
>curing the disease.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
>understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
>unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
>organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
>hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.

Dear Carl,

     The sore throat you get when you have the flu is likely not from the flu
virus itself, but from certain germs that are symbiotic with the presence of
the flu virus.  (I got this from a major article years ago in Scientific
American.)  That is why MD's give you antibiotics when you have the flu.
These bugs, if left unchecked can cause lots of trouble (like pneumonia and
ruptured ear drums).  Otherwise, how could the medical profession ethically
prescribe antibiotics for a *viral* infection ???  Note the difference
between pneumonia and *viral pneumonia*.  Right???

     About the business of starting small:  First, please note that I was
not, and am not, advising a person to experiment with antibiotics by himself.
I understand that in jurisdictions outside Canada and the USA, antibiotics
may be available over the counter without prescription.  I am not talking
about that.  Here's what I mean:

     I will politely mention that MD's will start a patient  out at the
*smallest* dose of antibiotic that he (the doctor) thinks will do the job.
Often they may have you start out with a small dosage on new {*filter*} to check
for side effects.  How could a physician prescribe large dosages of, say,
penicillin, to a patient who may need it for an infection, but whose family
history is one of allergies?  The doctor must proceed cautiously. The
pharmacies now hand out computerized printouts of the drug's side effects,
along with messages to call the pharmacist and/or doctor if the patient
experiences these side effects.   Also, doctors  usually pick the least
offensive ones (this may change with time as the bugs acquire immunity) first
because of the fact you mention, namely that they don't want to desensitize the
wild-bug population out there to their really powerful antibiotics, and it is
entirely possible, as I'm sure you'll agree, that the first antibiotic might
not do the job for the patient.  Only after the doctor is sure that you won't
have an adverse reaction (based on the patient's drug history) does the doctor
prescribe a larger starting dose.  Once the patient and the doctor have
determined that any side effects are manageable, then the dosage may be bumped
up or the time extended or both.   At least this seems to me to be the
technique.  Are thing that different in the USA??

    Regards,
             Fred.


    Operations group,                         Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 278/419
    TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    FAX  :  604-222-1074
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  Disclaimer:  These are my opinions and in NO way necessarily reflect the
               views of my employer or fellow employees.   I am not trained
               in the study of medicine.   I make no pretense of practising
               medicine.  My opinions should only make you think for yourself.



Fri, 10 Jun 1994 06:00:00 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:

>>   It works best for me when I feel the beginning of a scratchy throat coming
>>on.  It works better for me than penicillin.

>Not surprising, since it can't do less for you than penicillin for a viral
>infection, since antibiotics are not indicated for use against such.

If you look at the references I posted yesterday, you'll find that echinacia
does have anti-viral properties, and may account for it's ancedotal history
of use for colds.

Quote:
>>And when you do anything, it is wise to start out SMALL and work up.  This can
>>minimize initial problems.  I think it would be very unwise to jump in and take
>>_lots_ of anything.  It just goes against common sense. It seems that starting
>>out slow is a natural way a cautious person would do things.
>And a way of doing things that can totally negate any possible positive effects
>of the action.  E.g., were you to apply this strategy to using antibiotics,
>you could well end up breeding a resistant strain of bacteria rather than
>curing the disease.

By the same token, those that have allergies to given {*filter*} or herbs may
get the opportunity to discover such without winding up in the hospital.
Besides, we are really only talking about starting small for perhaps the
first day or so, to test for allergic reactions. I doubt that this would
lead to the sort of mutations suggested above.

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Senior Partner                             UUCP  : ucsd!crash!bkhouse!nkraft
Argus Computing                            GENIE : N.KRAFT3

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Fri, 10 Jun 1994 11:19:27 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:

>There are few true "tonics" in the pharmacopoeia, though there have been many
>useless nostrums over the years advertised as such.  Again, references
>purporting to support these assertions would be welcome.

Not true. There are plenty of true tonics in the pharmacopoeia. You're just
looking in the wrong ones. Try any decent Chinese Materia Medica, and you
will find plenty of "true" tonics. Some of the more modern editions also
have references to Western pharmacological research, which I'm sure you
will find useful.

Robert



Sat, 11 Jun 1994 06:01:17 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:

>>There are few true "tonics" in the pharmacopoeia, though there have been many
>>useless nostrums over the years advertised as such.  Again, references
>>purporting to support these assertions would be welcome.
>Not true. There are plenty of true tonics in the pharmacopoeia. You're just
>looking in the wrong ones. Try any decent Chinese Materia Medica, and you
>will find plenty of "true" tonics. Some of the more modern editions also
>have references to Western pharmacological research, which I'm sure you
>will find useful.

I'm sure you'll find lots of stuff which claims to balance the winds,
and other equally unverifiable stuff.  I know there are herbal
preparations in Chinese medicine which are pharmacologically active.
However, in scientific medicine, the whole notion of a "tonic" isn't
particularly useful or meaningful.  In general, you'll only see
something described as a "tonic" when its effects together with its
mechanism of action are, together, poorly characterized and
quantified.  It's easy to "prove" efficacy when your methods and
criteria are ill-defined and sloppy.  Good examples of this are things
like ginseng, which strikes me as a testament to the power of the
placebo effect, given its demand and the exorbitant prices it in turn
demands.  And, there are equally dubious equvalents in traditional
medicine as well, many of which are its inheritance from an older
unscientific practice.

--
Steve Dyer



Sun, 12 Jun 1994 05:06:26 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:

>This is a strong, positive statement, and one which most people versed
>in medicine would be skeptical about.  It simply can't be taken at face
>value.  Please provide your references.

He is, I think, being a little strong. From the reference I looked at, it
could be said perhaps to make it a little easier for new {*filter*} cells of all
types to be manufactured, including leukocytes, but nothing quite as strong as
"increases production of T-cells".

Quote:
>>All in all, this effect is well described as "tonic" in nature.
>There are few true "tonics" in the pharmacopoeia, though there have been many
>useless nostrums over the years advertised as such.  Again, references
>purporting to support these assertions would be welcome.

Again, I would tend to agree that this herb wouldn't be placed in the
category of any tonic herb as a primary function. As I said in my long
note, it seems a lot more fitting for treatment of hot flu symptoms, in
a way which is highly dispulsive, almost the opposite action of tonification.
The description I have describes this herb as having a cool nature, and
it is very rare for a primarily immune-tonic herb to be cool. There was nothing
I could see that would really qualify it as a cool Yin tonic either.

My reference for Echinacea is The Energetics of Western Herbs.

--
  ^     ^       Avery Ray Colter    

(  o _ o  )     "Chbby Chsr" on America Online

  \_*-*_/
    `-'         "See, I like, fall into a sinister trance
  ELFCAT!        When I hear the sound of the Underground!" - Money B



Wed, 08 Jun 1994 14:51:59 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:

>Echinacea is effective in combating a variety of infectious conditions,
>as I stated. It does this, at least partly, through effects on the
>immune system that are not necessarily analogous to what antibiotics
>do. There is some evidence that echinacea will, for example, increase
>t-cell production in humans, as well as enhancing the production of
>other immune system cell responses.

This is a strong, positive statement, and one which most people versed
in medicine would be skeptical about.  It simply can't be taken at face
value.  Please provide your references.

Quote:
>The former has led many HIV afflicted
>to use echinacea as part of their treatment (there is no evidence to
>support this use one way or the other-I do not recommend it, I only report it).
>All in all, this effect is well described as "tonic" in nature.

There are few true "tonics" in the pharmacopoeia, though there have been many
useless nostrums over the years advertised as such.  Again, references
purporting to support these assertions would be welcome.

--
Steve Dyer



Wed, 08 Jun 1994 00:49:22 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:


>>Echinacea is effective in combating a variety of infectious conditions,
>>as I stated. It does this, at least partly, through effects on the
>>immune system that are not necessarily analogous to what antibiotics
>>do. There is some evidence that echinacea will, for example, increase
>>t-cell production in humans, as well as enhancing the production of
>>other immune system cell responses.

>This is a strong, positive statement, and one which most people versed
>in medicine would be skeptical about.  It simply can't be taken at face
>value.  Please provide your references.

Why certainly!

Mose J:
        Effect of echinacin on phagocytosis and natural killer cells.
        Med Welt 34:1463-7, 1983

Wagner V, Proksch A, Riess-Maurer I, et al:
        Immunostimulating polysaccharides (heteroglycanes) of higher
        plants / preliminary communications. Arzneim Forsch
        34:659-660, 1984

Vomel V:
        Influence of a non-specific immune stimulant on phagocytosis of
        erythrocytes and ink by the reticuloendothelial system of isolated
        perfused rat livers of different ages. Arzneim Forsch 34:691-5,
        1984

Wacker A, Hilbig W:
        Virus-inhibition by echinacea purpurea. Planta Medica 33:89-102,
        1978

Hopp E, Burn H:
        Ground substance in the nose in health and infection. Annals Oto
        Rhino Laryngol 65:480-9, 1956

Voaden D, Jacobson M:
        Tumor inhibitors. 3. Identification and synthesis of an oncolytic
        hydrocarbon from American coneflower roots. J Med Chem 15:619-23,
        1972

Bauer VR, Jurcic K, Puhlmann J, Wagner H:
        Immunological in vivo and in vitro examinations of echinacea
        extracts. Arzneim Forsch 38:276-81, 1988

There are many more studies of similar natures. A full bibliography on
the issue would be a bit much for the net.

Micheal T. Murray, N.D., in his book _The Healing Power of Herbs_ (which
uses the above references, as do other herbalists) summarizes the results
of these studies as:

   "Further studies have shown that echinacea has other components with
    profound immunostimulatory effects. The components responsible for
    these effects are primarily polysaccharides that are able to bind
    to carbohydrate receptors on the cell surface of T-lymphocytes and
    other white {*filter*} cells. This binding results in nonspecific T-cell
    activation, including transformation, increases production of
    interferon, and secretion of lymphokines. The resultant effect is
    enhanced T-cell mitogenesis (reproduction), macrophage phagocytosis
    (the engulfment and destruction of bacteria or viruses), antibody
    binding, natural killer cell activity, and increased levels of
    circulating neutrophils (white {*filter*} cells primarily responsible
    for defense against bacteria)."

The only one of the above references that I have not been able to find,
except in abstract, is the work by Hopp in 1956. If anyone runs across
a archive of the obscure "Annals Oto Rhino Laryngol", please let me
know.

Quote:
>>All in all, this effect is well described as "tonic" in nature.

>There are few true "tonics" in the pharmacopoeia, though there have been many
>useless nostrums over the years advertised as such.  Again, references
>purporting to support these assertions would be welcome.

Using a loose definition of tonic as a substance which encourages bodily
systems to act with greater efficiency, I would think that echinacea may
fit the general title of "immune system tonic". As I think I said in an
earlier post, however, that's not terminology that I would tend to use.
Certainly more specific definitions of "tonic" tend to exclude such
actions as those seen with echinacea.

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Senior Partner                             UUCP  : ucsd!crash!bkhouse!nkraft
Argus Computing                            GENIE : N.KRAFT3

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Wed, 08 Jun 1994 11:47:22 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:

>Using a loose definition of tonic as a substance which encourages bodily
>systems to act with greater efficiency, I would think that echinacea may
>fit the general title of "immune system tonic". As I think I said in an
>earlier post, however, that's not terminology that I would tend to use.
>Certainly more specific definitions of "tonic" tend to exclude such
>actions as those seen with echinacea.

Your earlier description of echinacea as a "tonic herb" did seem like the
Teeguarden school of thought, as does the first part of this paragraph.
Ron Teeguarden, in the words of my own instructors, is a bit notorious for
extending the title of "tonic" to herbs whose functions are more clearing.
To be sure, clearing herbs can increase the throughput of energy at times,
but only in cases in which the throughput is being impeded by congestion.
Giving true tonics in this case, as I said before, would be like adding more
cars to an already clogged highway, while clearing herbs would work to remove
whatever was constricting the flow.
--
  ^     ^       Avery Ray Colter    

(  o _ o  )     "Chbby Chsr" on America Online

  \_*-*_/
    `-'         "See, I like, fall into a sinister trance
  ELFCAT!        When I hear the sound of the Underground!" - Money B


Thu, 09 Jun 1994 10:02:48 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:


>> a friend of mine has been `prescribed' Echinacea by a therapist as a general
>> curative (read 'panacea'). Quite apart from recommending a homeopathic
>> remedy without any sort of cause (like an examination or professional skill),
>> is there truth to their 'advice' (read 'sales pitch') that it cannot hurt?

>I took this stuff once thinking it might do something for an inflammatory
>skin condition.  It didn't work and in addition I broke out in small itchy
>blisters all over (rather like chickenpox).  Not my idea of "cannot hurt".

>--
>--  Jack Campin   Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
>Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland   041 339 8855 x6854 work  041 556 1878 home



   To me, this almost sounds like some kind of allergy.... Read further....

   Here in Vancouver, B.C., Canada we have available in the local health stores
a herbal formulation (is it from QUEST ???) called #21, I think, and it is very
good in my experience for ordinary colds and flu's and the sore throats that go
along with them.  I think the idea is to boost the immune response and to
provide some anti-germ action.  Sounds good to me.

   I believe the #21 formulation is a combination of Echinacea, Golden Seal,
Garlic, some extract of some kind of walnut (butternut?) root, and kelp.  All
these ingredients are powdered and packaged in medium-sized gelatin (?)
capsules.  I'm at my terminal now and not at home, so I must rely on biological
memory.

   I approached this herb business as a skeptic, being trained in Science.
But, as a good student of science, I kept an open mind, and tried relatively
controlled experiments on myself.  I think I know how to recognize the placebo
effect in myself, having had lots of experience with Medical Doctors and
believing that their potions would work, only to be disappointed when they did
not.  Believing that the only '{*filter*}' that would work are the ones that have
been totally researched to the hilt by modern clinicians and their laboratory
assistants, I was often angry at the claims made in the folklore, both old and
modern, about the curative value of herbs.  "How can these people know more
than our wonderful scientists who have gone to school collectively for
thousands if not millions of years ?", I thought.  Many others in the sciences
held simialr views.  Looking back, I can say that we who are trained in the
Sciences can really be stuck up!!

   As it turns out, if you are still alive and looking after yourself, then
you have undoubtedly benefitted from the value of herbs.  The ones we eat daily
are much more common, that's all.  In fact, the Canadian government has
recognized this and is promoting eating more leafy green vegetables as a
preventative for cancer in general.  I hear the advertizements often. We all
are 'scientists', after a fashion, since we do gather some accurate knowledge
from our daily experiences.  I think modern science should pay attention to one
of its own mottos:  "Just because you don't see it or haven't found it yet does
not mean it isn't there.  Perhaps you're looking in the wrong place."

   Well, I've been dying for years to say that!  There! I feel better now.
And now, back to this #21 thing:  

   It works best for me when I feel the beginning of a scratchy throat coming
on.  It works better for me than penicillin.  I do get a little 'warm'  feeling
(it's better than cold), but it usually takes care of the throat.  I usually
take the recommended dosage for a couple of days.  These herbs likely don't mix
well with other medications or vitamins.  Taking a lot of vitamin C while on
#21's gives me a headache.  (Yes, I tried this more than once.  It has also
been others' experience).  Probably there should be a warning about this
somewhere.  A little fresh lemon juice in Canada Dry Gingerale is OK for me,
though, but I take it at least 4 hours away from the #21's.  

   I rarely get 'real' (full-blown, if you'll pardon the pun) colds anymore,
less than one/year.  I don't think the #21's are a cure-all, in fact there is
one time they did not work and I had to get some very powerful medicine from
the doctor (years ago).  But between the general (very mild) natural vitamins
and a little garlic which I take, and a few of these #21's a year, I don't
generally suffer from much any more in the way of these infectious viruses.
And my cholesterol is very low, besides.  A casual comment about my routine
{*filter*} test was "you should live to be 150!" .   I asked my doctor if it could
be the vitamins and the garlic, and he said it could be.

     ****************** READ THIS ********************************

**** HOWEVER ****,

    It must be noted that some people have severe allergies.  These can be to
{*filter*} and/or herbs alike.  I would recommend that anyone thinking of taking
herbs for certain ailments, or even as a general tonic, should talk this over
with his or her physician beforehand.  There are certain allergy tests that can
be performed, and these have been recommended for certain individuals who have
a family or personal history of allergic symptoms.  And when you do anything,
it is wise to start out SMALL and work up.  This can minimize initial problems.
I think it would be very unwise to jump in and take _lots_ of anything.  It
just goes against common sense. It seems that starting out slow is a natural
way a cautious person would do things.  And, BY ALL MEANS, read about the
history of all herbs and medications.  Many books are available.

    ******************* READ THIS **********************************


    Operations group,                         Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 278/419
    TRIUMF (TRi-University Meson Facility)    FAX:    604-222-1074
    4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS
    University of British Columbia,
    Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

  Disclaimer.  These are my opinions and in NO way necessarily reflect the
               views of my employer or fellow employees.  I am not in the
               herb business, and am not trained in medicine.  I do NOT
               work for any drug or herb company, nor do I represent anyone
               who does.  My opinions are my own, based on my experience.
               The only thing my opinions should do for you is to get you
               to do your own reading and asking questions.

               I'm just a humble programmer working at my terminal.



Thu, 09 Jun 1994 09:42:00 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:
>There are few true "tonics" in the pharmacopoeia, though there have been many
>useless nostrums over the years advertised as such.  Again, references
>purporting to support these assertions would be welcome.

I always thought a "tonic" was an over-hyped, overpriced medical fraud
with effects no better, and usually worse than, a placebo.  What's a
"true tonic", and even more interesting, what's a "false tonic"?

                                        Gordon L. Burditt
                                        sneaky.lonestar.org!gordon



Sun, 12 Jun 1994 18:30:04 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:

>I've been told that I'm trying to explain things that are totally alien to
>western thought, and to a degree I guess I am guilty of that, but really, if
>a group of people compile lists of certain symptoms which often occur together,
>apply a simple model to these groups of symptoms, and then compile lists of
>herbs which consistently have certain effects on certain of these symptom
>groups, is this really unscientific? Is it really necessary to put radioactive
>tags on each herb to see where it goes in the body, in order to know what
>effect in general it produces?

Necessary, no.  Useful, yes.  Consider that many herbs have more than one
active chemical.  In many cases, one or more of these active chemicals may be
toxic, and finding a way to extract just the desired chemicals can be useful.
Finding out where and how the chemicals found in the herbs act is a useful step
in that process.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXes and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.



Mon, 13 Jun 1994 14:49:44 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:
>modern, about the curative value of herbs.  "How can these people know more
>than our wonderful scientists who have gone to school collectively for
>thousands if not millions of years ?", I thought.  Many others in the sciences
>held simialr views.  Looking back, I can say that we who are trained in the
>Sciences can really be stuck up!!

There seems to be a precision trip, an opinion in western science that it is
necessary to always have precise numbers, to know the microstructure of the
substance, all the constituents, what percentage they're in, in order for
something to be "scientific". Gee, I thought all that was required to be called
scientific was that a process be repeatable and verifiable.

I've been told that I'm trying to explain things that are totally alien to
western thought, and to a degree I guess I am guilty of that, but really, if
a group of people compile lists of certain symptoms which often occur together,
apply a simple model to these groups of symptoms, and then compile lists of
herbs which consistently have certain effects on certain of these symptom
groups, is this really unscientific? Is it really necessary to put radioactive
tags on each herb to see where it goes in the body, in order to know what
effect in general it produces?

We had a saying over in Barrington Hall when I was living there:
"Analysis Paralysis" - losing the forest for the trees.

--

(510) {New Phone Pending}       "A R Colter" on America Online
"Heaviness is the root of lightness; calmness is the controller of haste"



Mon, 13 Jun 1994 07:10:14 GMT
 Herbal Utility (resembles: herbalife ...)

Quote:


>>I've been told that I'm trying to explain things that are totally alien to
>>western thought, and to a degree I guess I am guilty of that, but really, if
>>a group of people compile lists of certain symptoms which often occur together,
>>apply a simple model to these groups of symptoms, and then compile lists of
>>herbs which consistently have certain effects on certain of these symptom
>>groups, is this really unscientific? Is it really necessary to put radioactive
>>tags on each herb to see where it goes in the body, in order to know what
>>effect in general it produces?

>Necessary, no.  Useful, yes.  Consider that many herbs have more than one
>active chemical.  In many cases, one or more of these active chemicals may be
>toxic, and finding a way to extract just the desired chemicals can be useful.
>Finding out where and how the chemicals found in the herbs act is a useful step
>in that process.

Well put.  People may also be unable to derive benefit from the active
ingredient in herbs because of allergic reactions to one chemical contained
therein.  There are potential drawbacks to the purification process though.
Consider ASA (aspirin).  Willow bark, from which ASA was originally derived,
contains natural buffering agents which can ease the stomach upset suffered
by some people.  Does it really make sense to extract the active ingredient,
then add buffering agents (as with Bufferin) when the natural agent does the
job?  It does if you want to make a pile of money.

-RJH



Mon, 13 Jun 1994 16:41:15 GMT
 
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