Subject: Re: Chelation for heart b

BR>Newsgroups: sci.med
BR>Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 21:06:00 -0800
BR>Distribution: world

BR>BABETTE BLOCH said to ALL  on 04/18/95:

BR>BB>If arteries are so badly clogged that angioplasty can not help,
BR>BB>perhaps the only recourse at that moment, especially if no damage to
BR>BB>the heart has taken place yet., is bypass surgery.  However, after
BR>BB>this is done, it is my understanding that many people continue to
BR>BB>clog up their vessels and additional bypass surgery may be necessary.

BR>BB>We now have three friends who have had bypass surgery.

BR>BB>Personally, I suspect that chelation might be a better early
BR>BB>intervention/preventive technique than a substitute for surgery at
BR>BB>the moment someone has a heart attack and they find severely clogged
BR>BB>vessels.

BR>If this is your belief, you should help design a clinical trial rather
BR>than quote anecdotes to buttress your statements.

BR>Bob Robles  Windows Online  Danville, CA

What a ridiculous comment! Do you do out-of-our-pocket research to
support a position anytime someone challenges a statement!
More to the point, however, two new clinical trials of chelation therapy
are being funded - and will shortly get underway. The Alberta Health
ministry in Canada has authorized $86,000 for a randomized clinical
trial in the provinces with the hopes of having chelation therapy
covered by their national health insurance. The Canadian docs are trying
to arrange matching funds to extend the scope of the study and include
more patients. In the US, the ACAM (American College for Advancement in
Medicine) a non-profit group supported totally by chelation (and other
alternative) docs, has provided $100,000 of matching funds to the Office
of Alternative Medicine (NIH) for a large scale randomized study to
be conducted in the state of Washington. In addition, the FDA has
acknowledged several European sites as acceptable to them regarding
studies being conducted on foreign soil. This should satisfy your
request for studies.
For more information, Telnet to: arxc.com

---
 * OLXWin 1.00 * The Alternative Medicine Connection

The fact that studies are planned isn't the point.  There is no
credible scientific evidence that chelation is effective in the
treatment of atherosclerosis.  If there were, there would be no need
for the studies you mention.  In this business, the *only* thing that
matters is good studies in peer-reviewed journals.  Books by advocates
of the practice, glowing testimonials, and anecdotes are helpful only
to the extent that they may indicate further avenues for research.

The fact that the best studies to date have found that it *doesn't*
work makes it unlikely it will ever be found to be of any benefit, but
we'll see.  In the meantime, this is a forum for scientific medicine.
Anyone who would advocate general acceptance of an unproven treatment
is no medical scientist.  Until such time as adequate scientific
studies prove its worth, advocation of chelation therapy for these
indications is off-topic here.  Move it to misc.health.alternative.

No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does
not want to adopt a rational attitude -- Karl Popper

Regarding a few posts referring to  Alberta Health and Chelation Therapy:

Not exactly.  There are a few MD's in Alberta and other Canadian
provinces who run private chelation clinics and bill patients
directly for chelation treatments.  Obviously the proponents of
chelation would like to see the provincial medicare plans pick up
the tab for chelation therapy as it does for most physician and
hospital costs.  We are in the midst of balancing our provicial
deficit and unless a therapy is of proven benefit, it is not
likely to be added to the medicare plan.  Alberta Health (the
provincial ministry of Health) would prefer not to cover any more
than it already does.

In Canada, the provision of health care is mainly a provincial
responsibility.  So, the individual provincial ministries of
health payroll the delivery of health care.  Actually, the study
is being done by reputable faculty at the U of C.   I understand
that angiopraphy is part of trial but I'll try to get more
details.  Needless to say, the mere performance of a trial
supports neither side in this debate.  It is the methodology and
outcomes that count.

Personally, I would prefer to see a few good small trials done
before devoting "GUSTO" or "DCCT" type resources the issue of
chelation therapy.

What is the Alberta Health ministry ... is this actually a branch of the
Canadian government?  For $86,0000, the study obviously will include only a
few patients ... and certainly won't be a long term followup study.

And, they of course, will be performing a totally unbiased study ...

How about a double-blind multicenter academic study of several thousand
patients including angiography before and several years after a complete
course of chelation?

The governemnt doesn't belong in the Health bisness other than ensuring
a free market and requiring insurance for risky proceedures. This research
should be left to the non-profit institutes. With a free market, I suspect
$86k would be plenty, medicine is such an interesting profession that the
supply of medical professionals in a free market would likely be high enough
to bring the yearly income to levels that are actually lower than other fields
that don't have a PAC in washington limiting competition. The governemt is an
institution that only has the rights of the individuals that create it, mob rule
by democracy leads to a majority like the germans in 1930's rationalizing the
reasons for their PAC's unfairly competeing with the auslanders/foreigners.
Clearly it's evil to have PAC`s bribe the legislature to collect money from
individuals (with force) and use the money for the purposes that the PAC's
want. Get real man. In twenty years the baby boomers aren't going to have
a Social Security and won't be able to afford health care at $200/hour.

here here - more good RCTs!

Dr Khesh Sidhu    "Shere Punjab" _
                                  \


(Lao Tsu)                            \__ ~