Opiates for suidicidal depression
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Anonymou #1 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could take opiates freely? Would tolerance build up, and if so, would increasing the dose be a problem? I've read that with intractable pain, as in cancer, there's really no limit to the dose that the opiate can be pushed up to to relieve the pain, so tolerance really isn't an issue. Is the same true for psychic pain? At least opiates could be used as a temporary therapy while the antidepressants take a month or so to kick in. Would some severely disturbed people be better off living in the nine{*filter*}th century when these {*filter*} were freely available? Might they also be more likely to contribute to society and lead fulfilling lives if their psychic pain wasn't preventing them from functioning and enjoying life?
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Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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crob.. #2 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could take opiates freely?
0
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Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Carey Gregor #3 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could > take opiates freely?
Giving potentially lethal, judgement-altering {*filter*} to the suicidal is an excellent idea. I wonder why no one thought of that before? -- Carey Gregory
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Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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BABYM.. #4 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
>Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.med.pharmacy,sci.med.psychobiology >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) >Xref: news.cetlink.net sci.med:229177 sci.med.pharmacy:58962 sci. >med.psychobiology:17903 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3b4 (see http://www.
>> How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved >>if they could take opiates freely? >Giving potentially lethal, judgement-altering {*filter*} to the suicidal >is an excellent idea. I wonder why no one thought of that before? >-- >Carey Gregory GOSH AND FLUPHENAZINE AND IT'S MATES ARE NOT POTENTIALLY MIND {*filter*}S ?. BABYMASH. Check out my new CD "Out Of It" New Zealand Music needs your support as do I so I can continue to grow as a recording artist,reply 4 info. Net-Tamer V 1.10 Beta - Test Drive
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Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Sams #5 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> > How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they > > could take opiates freely? > Giving potentially lethal, judgement-altering {*filter*} to the suicidal is an > excellent idea. I wonder why no one thought of that before?
It has been thought of before. It's the basis of many a successful career in psychiatry. Next up: fast moving metal boxes as a means of transportation -- recipe for disaster?
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Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Anonymou #6 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> > How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could > > take opiates freely? > Giving potentially lethal, judgement-altering {*filter*} to the suicidal is an > excellent idea. I wonder why no one thought of that before?
I posed the question because I was feeling very sad and anxious and wanted some way out of these feelings that have been bothering me for the past couple weeks. I'm taking benzos and an antidepressant but the AD so far hasn't kicked in. I found the sarcasm very hurtful. From my limited experience with opiates in hospital settings they do relieve depression. I'm sorry if I exaggerated things, using the words "freely available," but I do think they could have their uses, and although I don't know public policy, I'm guessing that not all of us have the insurance or resources to go to a hospital when we're severely anxious or depressed, and at present I don't know that opiates would be prescribed there for depression, even in such a controlled setting. This seemes to be a bias on the part of the medical establishment, not valid medical policy. If you were feeling desperately anxious (or for that matter in desperate physical pain) and felt that {*filter*} would offer relief, wouldn't you prefer to take it than commit suicide? My knowledge of opiates is only as a layman, and as I said, the words "freely available" may have been out of line, but I think the sarcasm was totally unjustified. Below is an article on Buprenorphine treatment of depression, which mentions that opiates were used until the mid-1950s for this purpose, followed by short Usenet post on the same subject. Buprenorphine Treatment of Refractory Depression J. Alexander Bodkin, MD, Gwen L. Zornberg, MD, Scott E. Lukas, PhD, and Jonathan O. Cole, MD. (McLean Hospital, Consolidated Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School). Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology , 1995, 15, pp. 49-57 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Abstract Opiates were used to treat major depression until the mid-1950s. The advent of opioids with mixed agonist-antagonist or partial agonist activity, with reduced dependence and abuse liabilities, has made possible the reevaluation of opioids for this indication. This is of potential importance for the population of depressed patients who are unresponsive to or intolerant of conventional antidepressant agents. Ten subjects with treatment-refractory, unipolar, non-psychotic, major depression were treated with the opioid partial agonist buprenorphine in an open-label study. Three subjects were unable to tolerate more than two doses because of side-effects including malaise, nausea and dysphoria. The remaining seven completed 4 to 6 weeks of treatment and as a group showed clinically striking improvement in both subjective and objective measures of depression. Much of this improvement was observed by the end of 1 week of treatment and persisted throughout the trial. Four subjects achieved complete remission of symptoms by the end of the trial (Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression scores < 6), two were moderately improved, and one deteriorated. These findings suggest a possible role for buprenorphine in treating refractory depression. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Introduction Throughout history, {*filter*} and its derivatives have had an important role in the pharmacologic treatment of various behavi{*filter*}disorders and by 1850 were considered to be specific treatments for melancholia (1). At the turn of the century, the eminent authority Emil Kraepelin recommended tincture of {*filter*} for the acute treatment of agitated depression(2). This use of {*filter*} and its derivatives continued to be recommended in psychiatric textbooks until as recently as 1956(3). However, before the development of modern methods of treatment evaluation, opiate treatment was replaced by somatic treatments such as electroconvulsive therapy and later by monoamine oxidase inhibitors and tricyclic antidepressants. These proved to be effective treatments that lacked the opiates' potential for abuse...Thus, the historically recognized antidepressant properties of the opiates have, with a few exceptions(4-8), received little empirical evaluation. Currently used antidepressants, all of which act on monoaminergic systems, are neither universally effective nor free from adverse effects of their own(9). For the benefit of patients unresponsive to or intolerant of these agents, who may constitute 10 to 30% of the population of patients with major depression(10), alternative drug treatments need to be evaluated. Now, with the development of opioid partial agonist and mixed agonist-antagonist {*filter*} exhibiting much reduced abuse and dependence liabilities,(11) it has become possible to safely evaluate the antidepressant efficacy of opioids. Among these "second-generation" opioids, buprenorphine has pharmacologic properties that make it particularly attractive as a potential antidepressant drug. Buprenorphine, an oripavine derivative of thebaine, is a partial agonist of the opioid mu receptor with kappa receptor antagonist activity(12). It has undergone considerable recent clinical investigation as a potential therapeutic agent for drug {*filter*}ion(13-15). It is safe even in extreme overdosage(16), despite being 30 to 40 times more potent than morphine as an analgesic. This lack of toxicity is attributed to the its partial agonist activity at the mu receptor which results in a "ceiling effect" on respiratory depression, because it acts primarily as a mu receptor antagonist at high doses(17). It has a longer duration of action than do conventional opioids, having been studied with alternate-day dosage regimens as a maintenance drug in opiate {*filter*}s(18).The drug has modest mood-elevating effects in humans, which actually decline with increasing dose, and is devoid of the dysphoric effects seen with increasing doses of cyclazocine-like compounds(17,19). Former {*filter*} {*filter*}s report that buprenorphine causes feelings of generalized contentment, but not the "rush" induced by {*filter*}(20) Even after prolonged administration of high daily doses of the drug, the withdrawal syndrome has been found to be mild and quite delayed(17,19,21), although {*filter*}s aware of the absence of the drug almost immediately(21). One study that found more marked and less delayed withdrawal effects than prior investigations still noted that the peak withdrawal was only 59% of the mean previously reported over the first 10 days of the discontinuation of a significantly lower equivalent dosage of morphine(22). Furthermore, chronic treatment with buprenorphine has been shown to decrease the self-administration of {*filter*} in primates(23) and in humans(24). Buprenorphine has an electroencephalographic profile in the rat similar to that of cyclazocine(25) [Figure 1], an opioid mixed agonist-antagonist with mu antagonist and kappa agonist properties. Cyclazocine was studied as an antidepressant because its encephalographic profile was similar to that of imipramine(26). It was shown in that study to have antidepressant properties in both acute and chronic depression in a mixed psychiatric population. However, it is not clear that cyclazocine has clinical properties that can be equated with buprenorphine, because the {*filter*} have opposite actions at the mu and kappa receptors and because cyclazocine does not share its imipramine-like electroencephalographic profile with buprenorphine in humans(21). In any case, the utility of cyclazocine came into question when it was found to have psychotomimetic properties,(27) a feature that buprenorphine does not have, and it was removed from clinical use. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- FIGURE 1. Cyclazocine and buprenorphine: molecular structures. [Image] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Motivated by recent evidence that buprenorphine appeared to be safer clinically that conventional opiates, as well as by a historical literature describing the antidepressant efficacy of opiates and more recent investigations of antidepressant properties of endogenous opiates, Emrich and colleagues(2) undertook the first published study of buprenorphine as an antidepressant. This double-blind, placebo-controlled study used an A1-B-A2 design and found that there was a robust mean improvement in depressive symptoms over 5 to 8 days of low-dose sublingual buprenorphine administration in a group of 10 depressed patients, most of whom were unresponsive to standard treatments. Some additional evidence has accumulated subsequently that buprenorphine may have useful antidepressant properties. The drug was associated with reduced depressive symptomatology when substituted for methadone in a population of opiate dependent patients undergoing methadone maintenance(28). Buprenorphine was also successful in reducing depressive symptoms in patients with borderline personality disorder(29). Finally, in a placebo-controlled challenge study using 11 non-drug-dependent psychiatric inpatients, (8 with depression) buprenorphine induced a marked improvement mood and behavior in 73% of subjects (and 75% of those with depression); one dysphoric response was observed in a single nondepressed control subject(30) This study was conducted to characterize more fully the nature of buprenorphine's potential antidepressant effects, including whether these are persistent beyond the 5- to 8-day period previously studied and whether the drug is effective in depression specifically found to be refractory to current standard medication therapies.
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Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Carey Gregor #7 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
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> I posed the question because I was feeling very sad and anxious and wanted some way > out of these feelings that have been bothering me for the past couple weeks. I'm > taking benzos and an antidepressant but the AD so far hasn't kicked in. I found the > sarcasm very hurtful. From my limited experience with opiates in hospital settings > they do relieve depression. I'm sorry if I exaggerated things, using the words > "freely available,"... *snip*
Sorry... I took you to be someone in need of a brain rather than someone with a serious question. I apologize. Perhaps some forms of depression do respond well to opiates, as history and the article you attached suggest. But the problems and risks that go with it are very real. Treatment would have to be carefully monitored. And while it might help some, it would undoubtedly prove deadly for many others if dispensed without tight controls. And then there's the problem of tolerance. The effective dose continuously increases with chronic use, but the lethal dose remains largely unchanged. Perhaps these problems could be overcome with attentive medical attention, but there is one last problem that is almost insurmountable, at least in the US at this time. The so-called "War on {*filter*}" has made it virtually impossible for any doctor to use opiates in this manner and continue practicing. As it is US doctors have a difficult enough time using them for their usual purpose without ending up in serious trouble with the ignorant, self-serving, self-righteous, but very powerful idiots who run this country along with the equally clueless voters who support them. But you do raise an interesting question after all.... -- Carey Gregory
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Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Steven B. Harr #8 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
writes: Quote: > And then there's the problem of tolerance. >The effective dose continuously increases with chronic use, but the >lethal dose remains largely unchanged.
Not true-- they track together. And blessedly so, or every chronic pain patient, every cancer patient, and every IV {*filter*} abuser wouldn't last 3 months. {*filter*} users have been reported to use as much as a gram a day, 250 mg at a time, and remain alert and awake. A fifth of that-- even a tenth of that IV would kill many opiate {*filter*}s dead as a doornail ({*filter*}'s about twice as potent as morphine, mg for mg). Quote: >Perhaps these problems could be overcome with attentive medical attention, but >there is one last problem that is almost insurmountable, at least in the US at >this time. The so-called "War on {*filter*}" has made it virtually impossible for >any doctor to use opiates in this manner and continue practicing. As it is US >doctors have a difficult enough time using them for their usual purpose >without ending up in serious trouble with the ignorant, self-serving, >self-righteous, but very powerful idiots who run this country along with the >equally clueless voters who support them.
No need to blame the politicians. They represent who they elect, and those that don't, don't survive long. Democracy is where everybody gets what only the majority deserve.
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Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Sams #9 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
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> writes: > > And then there's the problem of tolerance. > >The effective dose continuously increases with chronic use, but the > >lethal dose remains largely unchanged. > Not true-- they track together. And blessedly so, or every chronic > pain patient, every cancer patient, and every IV {*filter*} abuser wouldn't > last 3 months. {*filter*} users have been reported to use as much as a > gram a day, 250 mg at a time, and remain alert and awake. A fifth of > that-- even a tenth of that IV would kill many opiate {*filter*}s dead as a > doornail ({*filter*}'s about twice as potent as morphine, mg for mg).
A gram a day pure would be very unusual, but the Swiss trials did find 600mg/day to be most effective for maintenance. Some patients were on 800mg/day. No one was allowed to take more than 150mg at a time. But no one died of an overdose, and that is at least thrice what it woild take to kill a {*filter*} (not to mention the accumulated {*filter*} level by the last dose of the day!)
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Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Anonymou #10 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
: > : > How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could take opiates freely? : 0 That's not true. For a small percentage of people, opiates are the only thing which does resolve their depression. The only real practical alternative for these few people is to get on long-term methadone maintenance. Tell the people at the clinic how difficult it is to stop. That's why maintenance treatment exists, it's for people like this. The chances a doctor prescribing pk's for this reason are close to zero.
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Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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crob.. #11 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> : > > : > How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could take opiates freely? > : 0 > That's not true. For a small percentage of people, opiates are the only thing which does resolve their depression.
Opiates can also cause depression. I do not believe that there is a proven case of opiates being the ONLY thing which could resolve a depression. It may have been one of the few things tried, but I would venture to say, that ALL things were not tried. Quote: > The > chances a doctor prescribing pk's for this reason are close to zero.
True.
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Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Anonymou #12 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> : > > : > How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could take opiates freely? > : 0 > That's not true. For a small percentage of people, opiates are the only > thing which does resolve their depression. The only real practical > alternative for these few people is to get on long-term methadone > maintenance. Tell the people at the clinic how difficult it is to stop. > That's why maintenance treatment exists, it's for people like this. The > chances a doctor prescribing pk's for this reason are close to zero.
How do you get into a methadone maintenance clinic if you've never used opiates? Any tricks you know of? :) I'm not sure because I haven't had enough experience with them, but I don't think that if people had access to pharmaceutical grade opiates that they'd tend to use them to try to kill themselves. Opiates make you feel *good*. If you feel good you aren't likely to try to commit suicide. I also haven't noticed that in normal doses they affect your judgment so much as just make you dreamy, but if there's something that needs to be done you're capable of doing it (assuming the nausea doesn't get to you if you're not lying down). This was my experience trying morphine once in India anyway. In fact I've read of a doctor at Johns Hopkins who invented the radical mastectomy who could only function while on opiates and was fortunate enough to have a politician in high places to get it for him. Another article I had saved on my PC related to this, which appears to be a condensed version of the earlier article I posted. First I'm reproducing a Usenet post on this subject. Subject: Re: Buprenorphine for depression? Date: 26 Nov 1997 13:55:51 GMT
Organization: Lexis-Nexis Newsgroups: sci.med.pharmacy I had the same experience when I started taking Hydrocodone (Vicodin) for back pain. My doc explained that it is probably due to the euphoria caused by opiates. Of course in our case, it's not euphoria, it just brings us back to normal. I've since started a low dose of amitryptilline in addition to the Vicodin which helped trememdously, and I'm now weaning from the Vicodin. -Mike Dedek
|> Has anyone out there heard of using buprenorphine for depression? I |> have tried all the conventional antidepressants and none seem to work. |> However I have had the pleasant experience of taking percocet recently |> for a pulled tooth and it made me feel NORMAL. Not euphoric, just |> well. My doctor says that they are using buprenorphine for depression |> for people who react that way to opiods. Any input would be more than |> welcome. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following are exerpts from a recent article in the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology reporting on a study conducted at McCLean Hospital, Belmont, Mass. Buprenorphine Treatment of Refractory Depression ------------------------------------------------ J. Alexander Bodkin, MD, Gwen L. Zornberg, MD, Scott E. Lucas, PhD, and Jonathan O. Cole, MD. (J Clin Pharmacol 1995;15:49-57) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Throughout history, {*filter*} and its derivatives have had an important role in the pharmacologic treatment of various behavi{*filter*}disorders and by 1850 were considered to be specific treatments for melancholia. At the turn of the century, the eminent authority Emil Kraepelin recommended tincture of {*filter*} for the acute treatment of agitated depression. This use of {*filter*} and its derivatives continued to be recommended in psychiatric textbooks until as recently as 1956. However, before the development of modern methods of treatment evaluation, opiate treatment was replaced by somatic treatments such as electroconvulsive therapy and later by monoamine oxidase inhibitors and tricyclic antidepressants. These proved to be effective treatments that lacked the opiates' potential for abuse...Thus, the historically recognized antidepressant properties of the opiates have, with a few exceptions, received little empirical evaluation. Currently used antidepressants, all of which act on monoaminergic systems, are neither universally effective nor free from adverse effects of their own. For the benefit of patients unresponsive to or intolerant of these agents, who may constiture 10 to 30% of the population of patients with major depression, alternative drug treatments need to be evaluated. Now, with the development of opioid partial agonist and mixed agonist-antagonist {*filter*} exhibiting much reduced abuse and and dependence liabilities, it has become possible to evaluate the antidepressant efficacy of opioids. Among these "second generation" opioids, buprenorphine has pharmacologic properties that make it particularly attractive as a potential antidepressant drug. Buprenorphine, an oripavine derivative of thebaine, is a partial agonist of the opioid mu receptor with kappa receptor antagonist action...It is safe even in extreme overdosage, despite being 30 to 40 times more potent than morphine as an analgesic. This lack of toxicity is attributed to the its partial agonist activity at the mu receptor which results in a "ceiling effect" on respiratory depression...It has a longer duration of action than do conventional opioids...The drug has modest mood-elevating effects in humans, which actually decline with increasing dose, and is devoid of the dysphoric effects seen with increasing doses of cyclazocine-like compounds [e.g. pentazocine] Former {*filter*} {*filter*}s report that buprenorphine causes feelings of generalized contentment, but not the "rush" induced by {*filter*}... Buprenorphine has an electroencephalographic profile in the rat similar to that of cyclazocine, an opioid mixed agonist-antagonist...Cyclazocine was studied as an antidepressant because its encephalographic profile was similar to that of imipramine...[But] the utility of cyclazocine came into question when it was found to have psychotomimetic properties, a feature that buprenorphine does not have, and it was removed from clinical use. ...[In previous studies, buprenorphine] was associated with reduced depressive symptomatology when substituted for methadone in a population of opiate dependent patients... Buperenorphine was also successful in reducing depressive symptoms in patients with borderline personality disorder. Finally, in a placebo-controlled challenge study using 11 non-drug-dependent psychiatric inpatients,... buprenorphine induced a marked improvement...in 73% of subjects (and 75% of those with depression)... This study was conducted to characterize more fully the nature of buprenorphine's potential antidepressant effects... Results Ten subjects...met criteria for inclusion, but three could not tolerate the drug and dropped out after one or two doses because of nausea, malaise, or dysphoria...All subjects met DSM-III-R criteria for recurrent major depression without psychotic features... ...Six of seven subjects achieved marked clinical improvement by the end of the trial, and one deteriorated. The final buprenorphine dosage averaged 1.26 mg/day...The mean endpoint HAM-D score [Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, minimum score at start = 20] was 10.7, representing a 60.7% reduction from baseline...At the endpoint, four subjects (57.1%) had HAM-D scores of six or less, whereas at 1 week, only one subject had improved to that extent... Case Reports [Only one excerpted here] Patient 1 This outpatient was a 45-year-old, married, white academic physician...in psychotherapy since his late 20s for the treatment of chronically depressed mood, low energy, social anxiety...In residency training, he had extensive dental work and was treated with oxycodone...This raised his energy and his mood and relieved his social anxiety. He subsequently took opiates whenever he had the opportunity, moving over time to intravenous use...For the first several weeks of an episode of opiate use, his work performance was markedly improved, he would then become tolerant...He was finally discovered at work with a supply of hydromorphone, and was forced to enter outpatient drug abuse treatment...His depressive symptoms immediately recurred, and his psychiatrist started him on amitryptiline...However, he continued to suffer from low energy, easy fatigue, social anxiety, a pessimistic outlook, and little enjoyment in life...After 5 years, he again began to abuse opiates intravenously. He again experienced a marked enhancement of his quality of life. Over a 6-month period, he got married, aquired a new home, and made strides in his research. He was then discovered by the hospital to be using opiates and was induced to undergo inpatient treatment...Again he relapsed into depression. A course of amoxapine [was unsuccessful]. Subsequent trials of phenelzine, buproprion, and fluoxetine were without effect...He began to have suicidal thoughts. He withdrew from research activities and rarely left home. At this point he was referred for a trial of buprenorphine... ...Buprenorphine was rapidly titrated to 0.15 mg intranasally thrice daily...[After experiencing some improvement] his dosage was pushed slightly to 0.6 mg/day for the third week. He remained at this dosage for the remainder of the 6-week study...By that time he had returned to his research and writing. Over the next few months, his dosage was raised to 0.3 mg thrice daily and 0.45 mg at bedtime...At this dosage, he felt he had not only recovered from depression, but had achieved a new level of well-being and hopefulness. He reported...both a lack of acute euphoria and an absence of tolerance to the mood-elevating effects of the drug... Discussion The degree of
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Wed, 28 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Anonymou #13 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> > For a small percentage of people, opiates are the only thing which does resolve their depression. > Opiates can also cause depression.
Do you have any documentation for this, because of the three times I've tried opiates they've greatly relieved my anxiety and depression. The fact that so many people go through the trouble and indignity of getting them even though they're illegal would suggest that in most people they don't make them depressed. Quote: > I do not believe that there is a > proven case of opiates being the ONLY thing which could resolve a > depression.
Who knows? But they seem to effect the pleasure centers of the brain more directly than any other class of {*filter*}, and they don't take several weeks to kick in like the antidepressants, nor do they necessarily require the trial and error to find the right AD that some patients require. And I suspect that their effects are much more marked than that of your typical AD. You probably wouldn't need a double-blind study to see if they worked, the effects would be so obvious, just like the relief of physical pain from morphine is so obvious. And that's partly because their effects are almost immediate, and when you're seriously disturbed you don't want to wait and wait and wait for relief. Quote: > It may have been one of the few things tried, but I would > venture to say, that ALL things were not tried.
Maybe not, and it couldn't hurt to try other things, but how long would you have to wait to try various antidepressants for effectiveness when each one can take as long as six weeks to take effect, and a shot of morphine would bring immediate relief? Easy to say when you're not the one experiencing the pain.
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Wed, 28 Mar 2001 03:00:00 GMT |
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Anonymou #14 / 126
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 Opiates for suidicidal depression
Quote:
> > How many people with severe depression or anxiety would be saved if they could > > take opiates freely?
[snipped] Quote: > > Might they also be more likely to contribute to society and lead fulfilling > > lives if their psychic pain wasn't preventing them from functioning and enjoying > life? > Agreed! > By the way the French have shown that manipulating the endogenous opiate > system should alleviate some depression. > However,there is a perfect drug for depression now and it is Gamma-OH,that is > gamma-hydroxybutyrate.
How can it be obtained? Quote: Another interesting drug I came across that may have some usefulness in depression: Subject: Orphenadrine (Disipal, Norflex) - euphoric and antidepressive effects
Date: 1997/01/11 Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.med.psychobiology Orphenadrine (Disipal, Norflex) is a relatively old drug, having being available for several decades. Its chemical structure differs only slightly from that of diphenhydramine (Benadryl), though it is less sedating and may produce insomnia, and it has only a weak antihistamine action. Orphenadrine is an anticholinergic drug with central effects and is used (primarily as the hydrochloride, Disipal) for the relief of extrapyramidal side-effects of neuroleptic {*filter*}. It is also used (primarily as the citrate, Norflex) as a centrally-acting skeletal muscle relaxant, although its value as such has been described as uncertain. For years, orphenadrine has been described in some pharmacopoeias as having a euphoric effect. The drug has also been reported to rapidly relieve mental depression in parkinsonian patients for whom it has been prescribed, despite physical parkinsonian symptoms being yet only slightly relieved. A very old issue of Martindale's Extra Pharmacopoeia stated that because of its euphoric effect, orphenadrine warranted investigation for use in depression. However, this does not appear to have been followed-up in later issues. Particularly over the more recent years, misuse of the anticholinergic antiparkinsonian {*filter*} for euphoric effect has come to light, and this has been given as one reason for the recommendation that these {*filter*} should be prescribed after extrapyramidal symptoms arise rather than prophylactically with neuroleptic {*filter*}. Anticholinergic antiparkinsonians which are known to have been misused include benzhexol (trihexiphenidyl, Artane, Pipanol), benztropine (Cogentin) and procyclidine (Kemadrin). Orphenadrine has been stated in the British National Formulary as being more euphoric. The {*filter*} in this group seem to have been engineered to enhance central and minimise peripheral anticholinergic effects. High doses of these {*filter*} can produce anticholinergic psychosis. Recent issues of the New Ethicals Compendium (a New Zealand-published guide for medical practitioners, giving usually detailed, manufacturer-supplied information on {*filter*} by trade name) gives "senile and presenile depressions" as one indication for Disipal (orphenadrine HCl) in doses of 50-150 mg daily. However, it does not elaborate any further and my attempts to obtain further information on this have failed.
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