Medical, Circumcise Warning to Parents

Circumcise Warning to Parents

Author	Message
Wen-King #1 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents : :> :> : :> : ;> ;> :> :> My first son is circumcised; my second is not. My position is that if he ;> ;> wants the operation, he can choose it when he's old enough. :> : ;> ; :> :How old will he have to be to be "old enough"? If he asks for it at say ;> ;8 years old will you get him done? :> ;> How about at the same age when he can get a nose ring and pierced tongue :> if he choose to? :-) ; :But the {filter} effect is only one of a number of considerations. ; :If you wish to confine your discussion solely to the {filter} effect and ;wait until he grows up, then you have an obligation to provide :balanced information upon which a decision can be made when he does grow ;up. I see no evidence of this information being provided. On the :contrary, those {filter} circs who report favorable are usually viciously ;attacked. I don't recall me saying anything about {filter} effects. I only said they should be not be decided by the parents. As for the attacks you mentioned, well I am not seeing it. But I am not surprised, since the issue becomes galvanized when it is discovered that dis-information from those who knew better has contributed to the high rate of circumcision in this country. So one side tends to lump the other side together with the liars.
Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:00:00 GMT

John Pritchar #2 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: > : > :> > :> : > :> : > ;> ;> > :> :> My first son is circumcised; my second is not. My position is that if he > ;> ;> wants the operation, he can choose it when he's old enough. > :> : > ;> ; > :> :How old will he have to be to be "old enough"? If he asks for it at say > ;> ;8 years old will you get him done? > :> > ;> How about at the same age when he can get a nose ring and pierced tongue > :> if he choose to? :-) > ; > :But the {filter} effect is only one of a number of considerations. > ; > :If you wish to confine your discussion solely to the {filter} effect and > ;wait until he grows up, then you have an obligation to provide > :balanced information upon which a decision can be made when he does grow > ;up. I see no evidence of this information being provided. On the > :contrary, those {filter} circs who report favorable are usually viciously > ;attacked. > I don't recall me saying anything about {filter} effects. I only said they > should be not be decided by the parents. As for the attacks you mentioned, > well I am not seeing it. But I am not surprised, since the issue becomes > galvanized when it is discovered that dis-information from those who knew > better has contributed to the high rate of circumcision in this country. > So one side tends to lump the other side together with the liars. The question remains: How old will he have to be to be "old enough"? If he asks for it at say 8 years old will you get him done? Since most medical benefits of circumcision accrue when it is done at an early age, the only reason I can think of for {filter} circumcision would be something related to {filter} experience (phimosis, {filter} enjoyment, STD transmission). So while the anti-circs preach 'wait till he grows up', they do not acknowledge any positive reports of {filter} circs which the kid can use in making his decision when he does grow up. The question remains: How old will he have to be to be "old enough"? If he asks for it at say 8 years old will you get him done? You answered it facetiously. The issue is that of parental rights and responsibilities - what they are and their duration.
Mon, 27 Mar 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Wen-King #3 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents ;The question remains: How old will he have to be to be "old enough"? If :he asks for it at say 8 years old will you get him done? ; :Since most medical benefits of circumcision accrue when it is done at an ;early age, I havn't seen any benefits of circumcision for infant child. All I have seen are dangers for not keeping a child clean. Why is it that you have the obligation to keep your kids fed and clothed, but not to keep him clean? Parents are supposed to keep their kids clean, and circumcision should be used when there is medical necessity, or when as an {filter} the individual was unable or unwilling to keep themselves clean, or have decided to engage in dangerous {filter} activities. There is no right age, but like the age when one can legally consent to sex, there certainly needs to be a legal age for their protection.
Mon, 27 Mar 2000 03:00:00 GMT

John Pritchar #4 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: > ;The question remains: How old will he have to be to be "old enough"? If > :he asks for it at say 8 years old will you get him done? > ; > :Since most medical benefits of circumcision accrue when it is done at an > ;early age, > I havn't seen any benefits of circumcision for infant child. All I have > seen are dangers for not keeping a child clean. Why is it that you have > the obligation to keep your kids fed and clothed, but not to keep him > clean? Parents are supposed to keep their kids clean, and circumcision > should be used when there is medical necessity, or when as an {filter} the > individual was unable or unwilling to keep themselves clean, or have > decided to engage in dangerous {filter} activities. There is no right age, > but like the age when one can legally consent to sex, there certainly > needs to be a legal age for their protection. But that is the point. YOU haven't seen any benefits from circumcision (or you simply refuse to) but others do not share that view. They are entitled to make up their own minds. Medical necessity? Most of us parents provide our children with more than the bare 'necessities'.
Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Wen-King #5 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents ;But that is the point. YOU haven't seen any benefits from circumcision :(or you simply refuse to) but others do not share that view. They are ;entitled to make up their own minds. You are welcome to present a study that shows a benefit of circumcision when parents keep their kids clean.
Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Don Morg #6 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents On Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:39:05 -0500, John Pritchard [snip] Quote: >So while the anti-circs preach 'wait till he grows >up', they do not acknowledge any positive reports of {filter} circs which >the kid can use in making his decision when he does grow up. This is patently false. Some of "the anti-circs" [sic] do acknowledge positive reports of {filter} circs. [snip] *** Anyone who is interested in the pros and cons of circumcision can obtain an article ("Circumcision: the Pros, the Cons, and the Bottom LIne") which I put together on the subject after a very thorough investigation. I'll say up front that as a result of my own investigation, I changed my stance from strongly pro-circumcision to at least mildly anti-circumcision. address shown in the header) AND USE the following SUBJECT line EXACTLY: send Pros & Cons If you follow the instructions, my mailer will take care of it automatically. ** ** IMPORTANT: To send me e-mail, disregard the address shown
Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Todd Gastald #7 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: > On Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:39:05 -0500, John Pritchard > [snip] > >So while the anti-circs preach 'wait till he grows > >up', they do not acknowledge any positive reports of {filter} circs which > >the kid can use in making his decision when he does grow up. > This is patently false. Some of "the anti-circs" [sic] do > acknowledge positive reports of {filter} circs. I am only "anti-routine-INFANT-circ." A friend in California told me that his sex life improved tremendously after his circumcision in {filter}hood... He had undertaken the operation on the advice of a physician because he had premature ejaculation problems - which were solved by the circumcision. He was opposed to routine infant {filter}. Todd D. Gastaldo, D.C. -- IMPORTANT NOTE: I am not currently practicing chiropractic - except insofar as the practice of chiropractic includes freedom of speech. While in Oregon doing library research I have voluntarily forfeited my California chiropractic license so as not to have to pay the annual licensing fee. (Under California law, any licensed D.C. may voluntarily forfeit his/her license, and may, at any time, reactivate said license by providing the Board of Examiners with "twice the annual amount of the renewal fee...[He or she]...shall not be required to submit to an examination for the reissuance of the certificate." [Section 12, Act Regulating the Practice of Chiropractic...Issued by the Board of Chiropractic Examiners...Act Includes Amendments Through October 1993] "Yes, I sold [Gastaldo] a modem. That was one of the biggest mistakes of my entire life and I regret it more than any other error of my life." Howard Leighty, D.C.
Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Patrick Drape #8 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: > This is an interesting observation and one which I believe could be > true. It is certainly consistent with my experience. Strangely enough, > it has been frequently argued here by the anti-circs that circumcision > actually hastens ejaculation. In {filter}netic theory, the more information available, the more control possible over the system. One can make a case that circumcision could reduce the control a person has over their own {filter}. -- Download Anti-Spam PDMail from \| Father Order runs at a http://www.***.com/ ~pdrap \| good pace, but old Mother Be Microsoft Free - Use Linux \| Chaos is winning the race.
Sat, 01 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Grace Boockhol #9 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: }> }> > }> > On Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:39:05 -0500, John Pritchard }> > }> > [snip] }> > }> > >So while the anti-circs preach 'wait till he grows }> > >up', they do not acknowledge any positive reports of {filter} circs which }> > >the kid can use in making his decision when he does grow up. }> > }> > This is patently false. Some of "the anti-circs" [sic] do }> > acknowledge positive reports of {filter} circs. }> }> I am only "anti-routine-INFANT-circ." }> }> A friend in California told me that his sex life improved tremendously }> after his circumcision in {filter}hood... }> }> He had undertaken the operation on the advice of a physician because he }> had premature ejaculation problems - which were solved by the }> circumcision. }> }> He was opposed to routine infant {filter}. }> }> Todd D. Gastaldo, D.C. } }This is an interesting observation and one which I believe could be }true. It is certainly consistent with my experience. Strangely enough, }it has been frequently argued here by the anti-circs that circumcision }actually hastens ejaculation. Strangely enough...various magazines that have reputable "write in to the doctor" sections are replete with complaints from women in America (the majority of which have had sex with ONLY cut males) concerning how quick sex is and how UNsatisfying it is when sex only lasts an average of 2 - 5 minutes and/or that sex is painful due to friction...which is also a complaint of many cut males. Quote: }This is the first time as best I can recall that an anti-circ activist }has made a positive comment about circumcision. You continue to turn a blind eye when it suits you, John. This is yet another example of your dishonesty and misrepresentation and smearing of your opposition. There have been plenty of us anticirc activists, including myself, saying "Good for YOU...glad that circ worked for you." We have never been against an {filter} choosing circumcision for himself. We have never denied that it has...in fact, helped...as it did in your case. Grace Boockholdt *Disclaimer: The views expressed hereinabove are mine alone and not necessarily those of my employer. Fragile: Do not bend, fold, spindle or mutilate. May be hazardous to your health. Not recommended for children. Do not purchase if seal has been tampered with. May be too intense for some viewers. Batteries not included. For recreational use. An equal opportunity employer. Some settling of contents may occur during shipping. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Slightly higher in California. Keep away from fire or flame. Any rebroadcast, reproduction, or other use of this game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball is prohibited. Please keep your hands and arms inside the car while ride is in motion. One size fits all. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. Contestants have been briefed before the show. Do not write below this line.* :)
Sat, 01 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT

John Pritchar #10 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: > > On Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:39:05 -0500, John Pritchard > > [snip] > > >So while the anti-circs preach 'wait till he grows > > >up', they do not acknowledge any positive reports of {filter} circs which > > >the kid can use in making his decision when he does grow up. > > This is patently false. Some of "the anti-circs" [sic] do > > acknowledge positive reports of {filter} circs. > I am only "anti-routine-INFANT-circ." > A friend in California told me that his sex life improved tremendously > after his circumcision in {filter}hood... > He had undertaken the operation on the advice of a physician because he > had premature ejaculation problems - which were solved by the > circumcision. > He was opposed to routine infant {filter}. > Todd D. Gastaldo, D.C. This is an interesting observation and one which I believe could be true. It is certainly consistent with my experience. Strangely enough, it has been frequently argued here by the anti-circs that circumcision actually hastens ejaculation. This is the first time as best I can recall that an anti-circ activist has made a positive comment about circumcision.
Sat, 01 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT

John Pritchar #11 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents The article to which I am replying is not longer on my newsreader, hence the format. Newsgroups: sci.med Subject: Re: Circumcise Warning to Parents Date: 14 Oct 1997 22:03:34 GMT Quote: }> }> > }> > On Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:39:05 -0500, John Pritchard }> > }> > [snip] }> > }> > >So while the anti-circs preach 'wait till he grows }> > >up', they do not acknowledge any positive reports of {filter} circs which }> > >the kid can use in making his decision when he does grow up. }> > }> > This is patently false. Some of "the anti-circs" [sic] do }> > acknowledge positive reports of {filter} circs. }> }> I am only "anti-routine-INFANT-circ." }> A friend in California told me that his sex life improved tremendously }> after his circumcision in {filter}hood... }> }> He had undertaken the operation on the advice of a physician because he }> had premature ejaculation problems - which were solved by the }> circumcision. }> }> He was opposed to routine infant {filter}. }> }> Todd D. Gastaldo, D.C. } }This is an interesting observation and one which I believe could be }true. It is certainly consistent with my experience. Strangely enough, }it has been frequently argued here by the anti-circs that circumcision }actually hastens ejaculation. Strangely enough...various magazines that have reputable "write in to the doctor" sections are replete with complaints from women in America (the majority of which have had sex with ONLY cut males) concerning how quick sex is and how UNsatisfying it is when sex only lasts an average of 2 - 5 minutes and/or that sex is painful due to friction...which is also a complaint of many cut males. ------------------- Yet, a colleague of yours had this to say - "Cut men generally use spit or other lubricant to {filter} with. Whole men don't have to. Cut men squeeze hard (using a whole hand grip) and rapidly reciprocate their hand like the connecting rod of an express train. Whole men get there with much gentler pressure (often using only fingertip(s) and thumb) and slower action." See footnote 1. Please put this on the agenda for your next convention and get the matter settled. It looks like you are working both sides of the street at the same time. ------------- Quote: }This is the first time as best I can recall that an anti-circ activist }has made a positive comment about circumcision. You continue to turn a blind eye when it suits you, John. This is yet another example of your dishonesty and misrepresentation and smearing of your opposition. There have been plenty of us anticirc activists, including myself, saying "Good for YOU...glad that circ worked for you." We have never been against an {filter} choosing circumcision for himself. We have never denied that it has...in fact, helped...as it did in your case. ---------- Considering my comments above, your vision doesn't seem to be quite 20/20 either. Smearing the opposition? I make a statement ("it has been frequently argued here by the anti-circs that circumcision actually hastens ejaculation.") with which you agree and I am smearing you. Puzzling. Yes, I said it worked for me. Because my experience does not conform to your idea of revealed truth, should I deny my experience or just keep quiet about it? Grace Boockholdt Footnote 1 Subject: Re: Circumcision It aint so bad Date: 1995/12/10 Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med,soc.men
Sun, 09 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Grace Boockhol #12 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: }The article to which I am replying is not longer on my newsreader, hence }the format. } }Newsgroups: sci.med }Subject: Re: Circumcise Warning to Parents }Date: 14 Oct 1997 22:03:34 GMT } }}> }}> > }}> > On Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:39:05 -0500, John Pritchard }}> > }}> > [snip] }}> > }}> > >So while the anti-circs preach 'wait till he grows }}> > >up', they do not acknowledge any positive reports of {filter} circs }which }}> > >the kid can use in making his decision when he does grow up. }}> > }}> > This is patently false. Some of "the anti-circs" [sic] do }}> > acknowledge positive reports of {filter} circs. }}> }}> I am only "anti-routine-INFANT-circ." }}> A friend in California told me that his sex life improved }tremendously }}> after his circumcision in {filter}hood... }}> }}> He had undertaken the operation on the advice of a physician because }he }}> had premature ejaculation problems - which were solved by the }}> circumcision. }}> }}> He was opposed to routine infant {filter}. }}> }}> Todd D. Gastaldo, D.C. }} }}This is an interesting observation and one which I believe could be }}true. It is certainly consistent with my experience. Strangely enough, }}it has been frequently argued here by the anti-circs that circumcision }}actually hastens ejaculation. } } Strangely enough...various magazines that have }reputable "write in to the doctor" sections are replete }with complaints from women in America (the majority }of which have had sex with ONLY cut males) concerning }how quick sex is and how UNsatisfying it is when sex }only lasts an average of 2 - 5 minutes and/or that }sex is painful due to friction...which is also a complaint }of many cut males. } }------------------- }Yet, a colleague of yours had this to say - } }"Cut men generally use spit or other lubricant to {filter} with. }Whole men don't have to. Cut men squeeze hard (using a whole hand }grip) and rapidly reciprocate their hand like the connecting rod of }an express train. Whole men get there with much gentler pressure }(often using only fingertip(s) and thumb) and slower action." See }footnote 1. And your quote above states nothing about the quickness of ejaculation. Do you have a comprehension problem? Quote: }Please put this on the agenda for your next convention and get the }matter settled. It looks like you are working both sides of the street }at the same time. }------------- Actually the better quote comes from Steven Harris: <deletion> Quote: } Though if there was some reduction in sensitivity, I imagine that a }lot of uncut men with premature ejaculation might look into it for that }reason alone. Far as I know, nobody does this. Reason: it doesn't }work. Y'see, John...the presence of the foreskin...or the lack of foreskin is irrelevant to premature ejaculation. Cut men have problems with premature ejaculation; intact men have problems with premature ejaculation. I'm quite surprised you haven't figured that out yet. Quote: }}This is the first time as best I can recall that an anti-circ activist }}has made a positive comment about circumcision. } } You continue to turn a blind eye when it suits you, John. }This is yet another example of your dishonesty and }misrepresentation and smearing of your opposition. }There have been plenty of us anticirc activists, including }myself, saying "Good for YOU...glad that circ worked for }you." We have never been against an {filter} choosing }circumcision for himself. We have never denied that }it has...in fact, helped...as it did in your case. } }---------- }Considering my comments above, your vision doesn't seem to be quite }20/20 either. Unlike you, John...I'm not trying to say "it worked in ONE case (you) so the 'prudent' parent will choose it for all boys". Quote: }Smearing the opposition? I make a statement ("it has been frequently }argued here by the anti-circs that circumcision actually hastens }ejaculation.") with which you agree and I am smearing you. Puzzling. What's puzzling is your lack of comprehension... or are you being purposely obtuse? It has also been frequently argued by procutters that the foreskin hastens ejaculation. The problem (premature ejaculation) has been known by both "varieties". If the procutters are right...that it's better to cut something off so that ejaculation doesn't occur so quickly...what--do we suggest MORE be cut off the hapless "already cut" male? Quote: }Yes, I said it worked for me. Because my experience does not conform to }your idea of revealed truth, should I deny my experience or just keep }quiet about it? Not at all. What is objected to is your trying to dishonestly present that since it worked for you, EVERY boy should have it done at birth. You try to present that "one size fits all" is the way to go...sorry...it isn't. Grace Boockholdt *Disclaimer: The views expressed hereinabove are mine alone and not necessarily those of my employer. Fragile: Do not bend, fold, spindle or mutilate. May be hazardous to your health. Not recommended for children. Do not purchase if seal has been tampered with. May be too intense for some viewers. Batteries not included. For recreational use. An equal opportunity employer. Some settling of contents may occur during shipping. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Slightly higher in California. Keep away from fire or flame. Any rebroadcast, reproduction, or other use of this game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball is prohibited. Please keep your hands and arms inside the car while ride is in motion. One size fits all. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. Contestants have been briefed before the show. Do not write below this line.* :)
Mon, 10 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT

Steven B. Harr #13 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: Boockholdt) writes: ---------------- Quote: >}Yet, a colleague of yours had this to say - >} >}"Cut men generally use spit or other lubricant to {filter} with. >}Whole men don't have to. Cut men squeeze hard (using a whole hand >}grip) and rapidly reciprocate their hand like the connecting rod of >}an express train. Whole men get there with much gentler pressure >}(often using only fingertip(s) and thumb) and slower action." See >}footnote 1. I wonder where the data was collected for this? Boy scout circle jerks? I can only observe that if the above is true, most men in the {filter}o films are doing it wrong. And as for me personally, I'm intelligently refusing to comment. Steve Harris, M.D.
Wed, 12 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT

John Pritchar #14 / 17	Circumcise Warning to Parents Quote: > Boockholdt) writes: > ---------------- > >}Yet, a colleague of yours had this to say - > >} > >}"Cut men generally use spit or other lubricant to {filter} with. > >}Whole men don't have to. Cut men squeeze hard (using a whole hand > >}grip) and rapidly reciprocate their hand like the connecting rod of > >}an express train. Whole men get there with much gentler pressure > >}(often using only fingertip(s) and thumb) and slower action." See > >}footnote 1. > I wonder where the data was collected for this? Boy scout circle > jerks? I can only observe that if the above is true, most men in the > {filter}o films are doing it wrong. And as for me personally, I'm > intelligently refusing to comment. > Steve Harris, M.D. This was from one of our best-known and most frequent anti-circ contributors.
Wed, 12 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT

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