DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE 
Author Message
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

Please remove alt.med.fibromyalgia from this thread when you post a reply to
it.  Thanks.


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->Subject: Re: DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE
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->
->I have been taking the phen (30 mg) in the morning and fen (20) morning
->and lunch.  This is my 5th week taking this combination.  I noticed that
->for the first 3 weeks, I experienced terrible case of insomnia, sleeping
->only 2-3 hrs a night.  Not only that, I am extremely itchy all over my
->body including my face.  The pharmacist suggested that I take some type
->of antihistamine like benadryl to help with the itch but i was afraid
->to mix it with the phen/fen, so in other words I suffered.  The sleeping
->problem and the itching faded to a point that it is almost tolerable
->on the 4th week but then I suffered from minor whiplash that another
->doctor prescribed some muscle relaxant.  I was completely off the
->phen/fen for 1 week because i did not want to mix it with motrin and
->robaxin until i was better.  now entering the 5th week, its like
->starting over again.  I did not sleep well again last night and started
->itching that driving crazy.  Is it really OK to take antihistamine
->(orally) as oppose to external creme while on phen/fen to aid with the
->itching?  Any help will be appreaciated...mnm
->
->

Mark London



Sun, 08 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

Quote:

>>->I have been taking the phen (30 mg) in the morning and fen (20) morning
>>->and lunch.  This is my 5th week taking this combination.  I noticed that
>>->for the first 3 weeks, I experienced terrible case of insomnia, sleeping
>>->only 2-3 hrs a night.  Not only that, I am extremely itchy all over my
>>->body including my face.  The pharmacist suggested that I take some type
>>->of antihistamine like benadryl to help with the itch but i was afraid
>>->to mix it with the phen/fen, so in other words I suffered.  The sleeping
>>->problem and the itching faded to a point that it is almost tolerable
>>->on the 4th week but then I suffered from minor whiplash that another
>>->doctor prescribed some muscle relaxant.  I was completely off the
>>->phen/fen for 1 week because i did not want to mix it with motrin and
>>->robaxin until i was better.  now entering the 5th week, its like
>>->starting over again.  I did not sleep well again last night and started
>>->itching that driving crazy.  Is it really OK to take antihistamine
>>->(orally) as oppose to external creme while on phen/fen to aid with the
>>->itching?  Any help will be appreaciated...mnm

Sorry but this looks really silly to me: why the hell would one take
this stuff when he suffers from such side-effects? In addition the
entire thing is only a scam by Dr. Hietzig...

Lucius Kuert



Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

I would not take these {*filter*} if they make you feel that bad! As I am
regularly working with "serotonin" {*filter*} and antidepressants and see
there effect on the tissue I am working with I would not take ANY ONE of
them until researchers have found out what they are really doing!

Just my 2 cents

Etha



Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

Quote:


>>>->I have been taking the phen (30 mg) in the morning and fen (20) morning
>>>->and lunch.  This is my 5th week taking this combination.  I noticed that
>>>->for the first 3 weeks, I experienced terrible case of insomnia, sleeping
>>>->only 2-3 hrs a night.  Not only that, I am extremely itchy all over my
>>>->body including my face.  The pharmacist suggested that I take some type
>>>->of antihistamine like benadryl to help with the itch but i was afraid
>>>->to mix it with the phen/fen, so in other words I suffered.  The sleeping
>>>->problem and the itching faded to a point that it is almost tolerable
>>>->on the 4th week but then I suffered from minor whiplash that another
>>>->doctor prescribed some muscle relaxant.  I was completely off the
>>>->phen/fen for 1 week because i did not want to mix it with motrin and
>>>->robaxin until i was better.  now entering the 5th week, its like
>>>->starting over again.  I did not sleep well again last night and started
>>>->itching that driving crazy.  Is it really OK to take antihistamine
>>>->(orally) as oppose to external creme while on phen/fen to aid with the
>>>->itching?  Any help will be appreaciated...mnm

>Sorry but this looks really silly to me: why the hell would one take
>this stuff when he suffers from such side-effects? In addition the
>entire thing is only a scam by Dr. Hietzig...

>Lucius Kuert

Oh, bullshit.  Tell that to my wife.  She's lost 90 pounds using the Fen/Phen
combination.  The side effects are usually caused by inappropriate dosing by
doctors who don't completely understand the proper usage of these two {*filter*}.  
According to the PDR neither drug has been shown to produce any significant
side effects.  I have personally dealt with at least 15 or 20 people who have
taken the {*filter*} and the most significant side effect that wasn't eliminated by
adjusting the dosages was dry mouth.

Steve



Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

Quote:

>->I have been taking the phen (30 mg) in the morning and fen (20) morning
>->and lunch.  This is my 5th week taking this combination.  I noticed that
>->for the first 3 weeks, I experienced terrible case of insomnia, sleeping
>->only 2-3 hrs a night.  Not only that, I am extremely itchy all over my
>->body including my face.  The pharmacist suggested that I take some type
>->of antihistamine like benadryl to help with the itch but i was afraid
>->to mix it with the phen/fen, so in other words I suffered.  The sleeping
>->problem and the itching faded to a point that it is almost tolerable
>->on the 4th week but then I suffered from minor whiplash that another
>->doctor prescribed some muscle relaxant.  I was completely off the
>->phen/fen for 1 week because i did not want to mix it with motrin and
>->robaxin until i was better.  now entering the 5th week, its like
>->starting over again.  I did not sleep well again last night and started
>->itching that driving crazy.  Is it really OK to take antihistamine
>->(orally) as oppose to external creme while on phen/fen to aid with the
>->itching?  Any help will be appreaciated...mnm
>->
>->

>Mark London


I am not a physician so my advice is probably worth what you are paying for it
but:

You probably need to discuss increasing your fenfluramine dosage with your
doctor.  20mg morning and noon may not be enough to counteract the stimulant
effect of the phentermine.  The other option is going to a 37.5mg phentermine
and taking 1/2 of it in the morning.  One or the other of these remedies
should work.  

Stick with it.  The Fen/Phen (tm)  combination works well.

BTW there is a Dr. Hitzig who has a web page with great information on the
Fen/Phen (tm) protocol.  I don't recall the exact URL but a search for Hitzig
or Fen/Phen should allow you to find it easily.

Steve



Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE



: >entire thing is only a scam by Dr. Hietzig...
: >
: >Lucius Kuert
: >

: Oh, bullshit.  Tell that to my wife.  She's lost 90 pounds using the Fen/Phen
: combination.  The side effects are usually caused by inappropriate dosing by

The use of phentermine/fenluramine for obesity it absolutely appropriate,
effective and backed by one of the best studies ever done on weight
reduction.

However, Dr. Hitzig is making lots and lots of other inappropriate claims
for the drug.  There's been a long history of controversy about him on
the net.  So I suspect the original poster wasn't referring to the use of
these {*filter*} in obesity but in some of the other stuff he's claiming it
works for.

: doctors who don't completely understand the proper usage of these two {*filter*}.  
: According to the PDR neither drug has been shown to produce any significant
: side effects.  I have personally dealt with at least 15 or 20 people who have
: taken the {*filter*} and the most significant side effect that wasn't eliminated by
: adjusting the dosages was dry mouth.

All anorexant agents are associated with a very rare but often fatal
disease called pulmonary hypertension.  The risk of this from
fenfluramine alone is about 1:40,000.  The risk of the combined {*filter*} is
probably less than that of fenfluramine alone, but we don't know if there
is a synergistic reaction that increases the severity for some people.

I'll send you the studies by e-mail.  I'm not bashing the {*filter*}: the
Weintraub study used high doses on several hundred people for 5 years
with no major adverse effects and I personally am on phentermine alone
and have no intention of going off it.  But the PDR isn't entirely
accurate on this.

   "The trick is to keep an open mind, without it being so open
                      that your brain falls out."


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Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

Quote:
> All anorexant agents are associated with a very rare but often fatal
> disease called pulmonary hypertension.  

   Do you know for a fact that Phentermine has been implicated in PPH?
I would really like to know the answer to this question as I cannot take
Fenfluramine and have been taking Phentermine alone.

Terri



Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

I agree,with serious side effects the medication needs to be
reconsider.  

The entire thing is only a scam?  No its not.  It works
Karen



Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

: > All anorexant agents are associated with a very rare but often fatal
: > disease called pulmonary hypertension.  

:    Do you know for a fact that Phentermine has been implicated in PPH?
: I would really like to know the answer to this question as I cannot take
: Fenfluramine and have been taking Phentermine alone.

It sure looks that way based on the abstracts I've been reading.  Not
only did one study actually test phentermine along with lots of other
anorexants to see how strongly the adffected rat llung receptors, but
several other abstracts mentioned PH from phentermine alone as though it
was common knowldge.

Phentermine appears to have a *much* lower rate of PH since it reduces
serotonin uptake in the lung receptors, although it also has the same
effect on reducing serotonin clearance from lung tissue.

If you want the abstracts, sned me a note and I'll mail them off.  BTW,
I'm on phentermine too and I don't have any plans to get off it.

--
   "The trick is to keep an open mind, without it being so open
                      that your brain falls out."


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Shrine of the {*filter*}netic Madonna BBS  213-766-1356  Los Angeles

   * CFS/Fibromyalgia/AIDS support *  General medical information *  
Left-wing Politics  *  Church of the SubGenius  *  Skepticism & Science
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

: I agree,with serious side effects the medication needs to be
: reconsider.  

: The entire thing is only a scam?  No its not.  It works
: Karen

It is definitely effective in obesity.  However, there is no research done
on it in different disorders and there are some people making pretty
wild claims, like that it can cure multiple sclerosis.  That's where the
scam allegations come in

--
   "The trick is to keep an open mind, without it being so open
                      that your brain falls out."


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Shrine of the {*filter*}netic Madonna BBS  213-766-1356  Los Angeles

   * CFS/Fibromyalgia/AIDS support *  General medical information *  
Left-wing Politics  *  Church of the SubGenius  *  Skepticism & Science
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

Quote:

> > All anorexant agents are associated with a very rare but often fatal
> > disease called pulmonary hypertension.

>    Do you know for a fact that Phentermine has been implicated in PPH?
> I would really like to know the answer to this question as I cannot take
> Fenfluramine and have been taking Phentermine alone.

> Terri

we do knoe that pondimin will cause depression after time


Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE

Quote:


>: I agree,with serious side effects the medication needs to be
>: reconsider.  

>: The entire thing is only a scam?  No its not.  It works
>: Karen

>It is definitely effective in obesity.  However, there is no research done
>on it in different disorders and there are some people making pretty
>wild claims, like that it can cure multiple sclerosis.  That's where the
>scam allegations come in

>--
>   "The trick is to keep an open mind, without it being so open
>                      that your brain falls out."



Aren't you being a little harsh calling Dr. Hitzig's ideas a scam?  I agree
that some of his ideas are a little far-fetched but who are we to say they
don't or won't work.  From what I have read and heard directly from Dr.
Hitzig, he is working on using the Fen/Phen {*filter*} to treat a lot of disorders.
 I haven't heard him promote Fen/Phen as a cure-all.  He just says it may
work.  

I have to also agree that it seems strange to see him trademark the Fen/Phen
protocol but isn't he entitled to make a little money on his ideas and/or
research?

Steve



Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 DEXFENFLURAMINE vs FENFLURAMINE


: >: I agree,with serious side effects the medication needs to be
: >: reconsider.  
: >
: >: The entire thing is only a scam?  No its not.  It works
: >: Karen
: >
: >It is definitely effective in obesity.  However, there is no research done
: >on it in different disorders and there are some people making pretty
: >wild claims, like that it can cure multiple sclerosis.  That's where the
: >scam allegations come in

: Aren't you being a little harsh calling Dr. Hitzig's ideas a scam?  I agree
: that some of his ideas are a little far-fetched but who are we to say they
: don't or won't work.  From what I have read and heard directly from Dr.
: Hitzig, he is working on using the Fen/Phen {*filter*} to treat a lot of disorders.
:  I haven't heard him promote Fen/Phen as a cure-all.  He just says it may
: work.  

It's not clear from the quoting:  I was attempting to clarify some
Internet history re: Hitzig and phentermine/fenfluramine.  The
parts of the conversation that got edited out of the quotes went
something like:

Poster one: I want to know about phentermine and fenfluramine for obesity.

Poster two: the whole thing is a scam by Hitzig.

Poster three: no it's not, it works.  

I was attempting to state that there is good research on these {*filter*} in
obestity and they do work,  while letting people know that a lot of the
other applications of phentermine and fenfluramine that Dr. Hitzig is
advocating are quite controversial and must be regarded as experimental.
I did not say, nor did I intend to say that Hitzig was running a scam.  
That statement was made by the original poster and I used the phrase
'scam allegations' because I was trying to clarify the issue.

I have serious doubts about a lot of Dr. Hitzig's claims.  I really don't
like the way he recruits patients and at I threatened to report him to
his state medical board for unethical behavior if he didn't start telling
people that the use of fen/phen in other illnesses is experimental and
based only on his speculations.  

However, the worst I can say about the use of phentermine and
fenfluramine in other illnesses is that it might be bad medicine.  It's
not a scam: people go to his office, they do get the {*filter*}, there is a
scientific rationale (although not a strong one and certainly no published
studies) supporting their use in other illnesses and he does follow-up and
supervise his patients.


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Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:00:00 GMT
 
 [ 13 post ] 

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