: Jason:  How do you know your fatigue is caused by the Paxil?  That's a
: side-effect I have not heard of for that medicine.  Could you be sick with
: a low-grade infection or something and just THINK it's the Paxil?  Or do
: you KNOW?

                It is well-known to psychopharmacologists
                that fatigue is a common side-effect in
                pholks who take SSRIs for some time.  This
                side-effect is caused by the downregulation
                of dopaminergic receptors by the SSRI.  The
                treatment for this is to add Dexedrine, Ritalin,
                or another dopamine agonist to the SSRI.

                Unfortunately, too many psychiatrists who do
                not specialize in psychopharmacology do not
                understand what is happening in this situ-
                ation and try to incresse the SSRI, or tell
                the patient that they "have some unconscious
                reason for not wanting to get better."
--
--                                                         \\\\          

||------------------------------------------------------ooO-( )-Ooo-----||
||                          Ivan Goldberg, MD                ~          ||

|| Voice = +1 212 876 7800                        Fax = +1 212 737 0473 ||
||     NY Psychopharmacologic Inst.  1346 Lexington Ave NYC  10128      ||
||----------------------------------------------------------------------||

Also, for the people that find themselves fatigued, how well
do you sleep? Tyrosine which is the amino acid used to make
dopamine is also used to manufacture melatonin which makes
you sleep.

If you have problems going to sleep is it more of

1) Can't stop the thoughts, keep thinking about things.

2) am mellow and resting but can't make the state transition
to sleep.

The first is assisted with GHB, the second with melatonin.

Mary Morris

tryptophan -> serotonin -> melotonin.

believe that it is catechol-o-methyltransferase that synthesizes
melotonin from serotonin...

although i don't see how GABAergics are going to cure anything in the
long run...  although if it worked it would beat trying to get a
prescription for a BZ to out of a shrink to use occasionally...

--

Q: How many economists does it take to change a light bulb?
N: None!  If it needed fixing, the market would take care of it!

Mary

--

Q: How many economists does it take to change a light bulb?
N: None!  If it needed fixing, the market would take care of it!

Where did you get your information concerning Hydergine's effect on
dopamine?  I have never heard this claim, not even the "smart drug"
people"  - and they love Hydergine. (maybe they did
say it in a round about way - but I don't recall it)

I tried it once.  Though it is supposed to take a few monthes before one
notices any cognitive improvements, I experienced this {*filter*} wired
feeling right off the bat.  Not a pleasant stimulant - more like "instant
bad mood".  I tried a lower dosage and got the same result.

The enzyme for serotonin to melatonin is N-actetyl transferase, and from
acetyl serotonin is HIOMT
hydroxyindole-O-methyltransferase....essentailly the same reaction.....

but catechol-O-methyltransferase is involved in the inactivation of
norepinephrine, like MAO

--

                Tryptophan
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |  <-------- Tryptophan hydroxylase
                    |
                    |
                    |
           5-Hydroxytryptophan
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |  <-------- 5-Hydroxytryptophan decarboxylase
                    |            & Pyridoxal phosphate
                    |
                    |
           5-Hydroxytryptamine (Serotonin)
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |  <-------- N-Acetyltransferase + Acetyl-CoA
                    |
                    |
                    |
      N-Acetyl-5-hydroxytryptamine (N-Acetylserotonin)
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |  <-------- Hydroxyindole-O-methyltransferase +
                    |            S-Adenosylmethionine
                    |
                    |
      N-Acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine (Melatonin)

-Michael

i've also heard mentioned pathways such as tryptophan->tryptamine->serotonin
rather than tryptophan->5-hydroxytryptophan->serotonin -- i didn't see
anything on how significant these pathways are, though...

--

Q: How many economists does it take to change a light bulb?
N: None!  If it needed fixing, the market would take care of it!

There is a discussion about various D1 and D2 agonists in
the chapter on Modulation of states of Arousal and Sleep.
Ergot alkaloids are listed here as being a general D
agonist, not weighted more towards D1 or D2.

I realize that some people feel wired on this. I was warned
about this when it was given to me. I have been unable to
take most stimulants for more than 2 days in a row because
of the headaches and stiff necks that they cause (cylert,
tyrosine are two examples). After taking Hydergine for
a week, I have been able to take either of these without
any concerns.

FYI, I do have the response to stimulants that is characterized
by ADD. They mellow me out and make things clearer. Hydergine's
short term effects on me were overwhelming grogginess and
the deepest sleep I have ever had. That lasted for a little
over a month. I am now responding similarly to other people.

Mary

Mary

--
Steve Dyer

:-)lace(-:

--
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| The Johns Hopkins University  | ~U~ |  I speak *and sing* for myself.   |
| (410)955-7637                 |\ o /|  Sing -- and you are free.        |

The only thing which is clear is that Amanda L. Smith can't
spell obviously.  The rest of the logic appears to have holes in it...like
the "lace", perhaps.