I am currently a College Freshman with a deep desire to go into
medicine. Hopefully by the time I graduate in '98 I will have taken 1
year of Calculus, 2 years of Chem. (including Organic), 1 semester of
Physics, a semester of English and many semesters of Biology (my
intended major). I will also be taking music and art courses. What
else are the very good Med schools looking for. I am already an EMT
and work summers as the Head Lifeguard at a large beach. Any extra
information or tips that anyone can give me will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob Benjamin

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Since I am a doc in practice, I don't get a lot of time to check into
these newsgroups so I hope you still want info on med school.  It looks to
me like you have a good base education planned.  Now take as much
non-science as you can.  Unless you get into a progressive school, e.g.,
Penn State, you will be inundated with more science than your brain can
possibly absorb once in school.  Take time now to become a human being.

John Messmer, M.D.

: Since I am a doc in practice, I don't get a lot of time to check into
: these newsgroups so I hope you still want info on med school.  It looks to
: me like you have a good base education planned.  Now take as much
: non-science as you can.  Unless you get into a progressive school, e.g.,
: Penn State, you will be inundated with more science than your brain can
: possibly absorb once in school.  Take time now to become a human being.

: John Messmer, M.D.

I am involved in the curriculum at the U of Nebr. College of
Medicine.  I share your advise to get a firm base in a
broad-based undergraduate major, but with several caveats, first,
I would advise the students to take one semester of advanced
biochem, a semester in human genetics or mendelian genetics, a
course in applied ethics, and several lit or philosophy courses
that emphasize reading material over the lectures (to prepare the
students for a curriculum that will likely not have much
genetics, and to give them a leg-up in the dreaded first
semester.)  I tell the students to learn how to read for data and
its application and meaning.  A lit course that has you read 15
novels in 14 weeks is not what I mean, better a course on Hamlet
than a course over all of Shakespeare's plays.  Furthermore,
given the boom in applications, taking a major that can be used
to get a good job outside of medicine (ie: finance, engineering)
will make rejection a little easier.  The way I explain that is
that if you get rejected, you're bound to be disappointed and
depressed.  If you make 35 grand a year as an electrical
engineer, you can be depressed in your new sports car, if you
took a biology degree and now are trying to make your way as a
fry-cook, you're going to be even more depressed.

So much for my soap box, happy new year.
JLH.

Very good advice!

I know lots of people that had not taken biochem before they got into
medical school.   First year biochem/CellBio was a very unpleasant time
for many of these people, with  more than a few of them having to retake
the class over the summer or next year (more than any other single class
at the U of MN medical school, if I remember right).  The m{*filter*}of the
story: take undergrad Biochem, Genetics and maybe a good CellBio class if
you have the time.  These seem to be the ones that give the unprepared
some problems.

Well said!!  There is nothing more sad than the "pre-med" type person who
got the BS in biology, even though they did not much like biology,
because they thought it would help them get into medical school (for the
most part such degrees do not help).  

Lots of very good people that apply to med school do not get in (in fact
the vast majority of people that apply do not get in).  It is best to
plan your undergrad major such that you have several fall back positions
if things do not go your way.  

Good luck and have some fun in your undergrad.  Pick a program that you
will be happy doing if you do not get into medical school.

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Please forgive yet-another-pathetic-pre-med-student who
probably won't get in, but, I would be very appreciative of
anyone, with any experience who could tell me what I could
possibly do to get into med school short of {*filter*}, or even
a list of med school deans accepting bribes + the going rate.

First, what would be your prognosis of... well, take this
random case for example of an Undergrad from UVA.

Major - Chemistry, specializing in biology (BIOCHEM) + BIOLOGY
        double.
MCATS - Average... about 10's (Haven't taken them yet, only a
        second year.)
GPA - (Here's the problem.) 3.023.
Other - EMT-B with the fire department.
        Service fraternity.
        a bunch of other miscellaneous service organizations
        and social/cultural clubs.

Well, the prognosis isn't really important since the random
student will just forge ahead regardless of what the world
thinks, but humor me.

1) Would research be helpful here? or not really to any extent?
2) The GPA can be about as good as a 3.4, but probably will be
        about a 3.1 or a 3.2 at application time.  What would
        the prognosis be then?
3) I heard that the admissions commitees will also look at a
        'micro GPA' with only certain courses, is this more
        important that the real GPA? MCATs?
4) Someone mentioned that a degree in biology is not helpful,
        but wouldn't it still be better than a degree in
        English Literature?  Please say yes, but how much?
5) Supposedly the admissions commitees basically look at GPA and
        MCATs above everything else, but by how much?
6) All things considered, where should this student apply?

I'm not really looking for speculation, since I already do that
quite often.  I'm more interested in opinions from admissions
personnel, or recent med school students or a list of med
schools that aren't too picky about GPAs.

khiet

thanks in advance, I gotta get to my orgo book.

probably won't get in, but, I would be very appreciative of
anyone, with any experience who could tell me what I could
possibly do to get into med school short of {*filter*}, or even
a list of med school deans accepting bribes + the going rate.<<

Just from this sentence alone I would say your prospects are hopeless. If a
few admissions committees see this, then impossible would be more accurate.

random case for example of an Undergrad from UVA.<<

Random? Really?

Research experience is generally a plus.

        about a 3.1 or a 3.2 at application time.  What would
        the prognosis be then?<<

These days, not very competitive but still an outside chance....

        'micro GPA' with only certain courses, is this more
        important that the real GPA? MCATs?<<

Those "certain courses" will be your sciences- very important, and usually
your toughest courses.

        but wouldn't it still be better than a degree in
        English Literature?  Please say yes, but how much?<<

Biology-major pre-meds are a dime-a-dozen. Sorry to disappoint you, but an
English Lit major would stand apart from the crowd and would be much more
highly desireable to admissions committees if otherwise competitive (good
science GPA, MCATS).

        MCATs above everything else, but by how much?<<

Let's just say that's about 95% of the ball game. Other factors would have to
be extreme to have any significant effect (e.g, Debbie Thomas, the Olympic
medal winning figure skater, whose a med student at Northwestern- but then
her GPA was  pretty good at Stanford).

The Carribean? Mexico?

quite often.  I'm more interested in opinions from admissions
personnel, or recent med school students or a list of med
schools that aren't too picky about GPAs.<<

See above.

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