Hearing aids 
Author Message
 Hearing aids

I know, I know... these may not be appropriate newsgroups, but they
are the best I could find.  After reading this, if you can suggest
others groups, PLEASE do so!

Here's the story: My SO is hard of hearing and has been for most of
her life.  Recently, she went to two different practitioners, the
first, a salesman for Miracle Ear and the second, a doctor who
dispenses hearing aids as needed.

They both agree on her problem: She has nerve damage that makes it
difficult for her to hear high frequency sounds.  This is a very
common pattern for hearing loss.  The damage is nerver damage only,
ther appears to be no conductive loss.

This is where they disagree: The Miracle ear guy told her that his
product can selectively amplify different frequencies.  That is, in
her case, the low frequencies would not be altered, but the high
frequencies would be amplified.  This would help compensate for her
problem.  He "rigged" up his testing machine to simulate how the aids
would work and my SO reported that the results were amazing.  

The second doctor told her that in her case, she needed a hearing aid,
such as the one described above, but that they don't exist!  He said
that the only type on the market were straight amplifiers, and in her
case, they'd be useless.  Now, as an engineer, I know that the
technology for a selectively amplified hearing aid is not difficult.  

So the question is this: Who's telling the truth?  Do Miracle Ear
hearing aids work as advertised?  Is the second practitioner correct,
or is he "jealous" of a technology not available to him?  Any
information, including personal anecdotes, are welcomed.

--

Field Robotics Center,          | Christian churches, is the study of
Carnegie Mellon University      | nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | on no principles; it proceeds by no
(412) 268-3856                  | authority; it has no data; it can
                                | demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no
The opinions expressed are mine | conclusion.  Thomas Paine
and do not reflect the official |
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  |
or any other organization.      |



Mon, 05 Jun 1995 01:55:46 GMT
 Hearing aids
Quote:

>Here's the story: My SO is hard of hearing and has been for most of

>They both agree on her problem: She has nerve damage that makes it
>difficult for her to hear high frequency sounds.  This is a very
>common pattern for hearing loss.  The damage is nerver damage only,
>ther appears to be no conductive loss.

>This is where they disagree: The Miracle ear guy told her that his
>product can selectively amplify different frequencies.  That is, in
>her case, the low frequencies would not be altered, but the high
>frequencies would be amplified.  This would help compensate for her
>problem.  He "rigged" up his testing machine to simulate how the aids
>would work and my SO reported that the results were amazing.  

>The second doctor told her that in her case, she needed a hearing aid,
>such as the one described above, but that they don't exist!  He said
>that the only type on the market were straight amplifiers, and in her
>case, they'd be useless.  Now, as an engineer, I know that the
>technology for a selectively amplified hearing aid is not difficult.  

>So the question is this: Who's telling the truth?  Do Miracle Ear
>hearing aids work as advertised?  Is the second practitioner correct,
>or is he "jealous" of a technology not available to him?  Any
>information, including personal anecdotes, are welcomed.

My father wears the Miracle ear type that can be be adjusted to
hipass I am sure and band pass I think. He bought his for around
$300.00. If you are intereseted you can call him at 512-758-7055
or  if he is not there try 405 335-2855.
His name is Gordon Couger, Sr.
Good luck
Gordon
Gordon Couger
AB5Dg   Agriculture Engineering Oklahoma State University



Mon, 05 Jun 1995 13:18:58 GMT
 Hearing aids

Quote:
Roston) writes:
> So the question is this: Who's telling the truth?  Do Miracle Ear
> hearing aids work as advertised?  Is the second practitioner correct,
> or is he "jealous" of a technology not available to him?  Any
> information, including personal anecdotes, are welcomed.

The second practitioner is incorrect.  The first practitioner may or may
not be correct.  There do exist equalizing hearing aids.  I own one.  It's
a behind-the-ear jobbie about 15 years old that was owned by my
grandmother.  No integrated circuits, so the circuit is fairly easy to
trace if you're nearsighted.  The equalization control is fairly crude,
consisting of fixed filters that are selected when the hearing aid is
being built.  It's obviously going to be a rough approximation of any
particular hearing pattern.

Whether Miracle Ear does this or not, I cannot say.  However, the
assertion that there are no hearing aids on the market with EQ is false.



Florida State University                      SPAN:     scri::pepke

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.



Tue, 06 Jun 1995 00:38:32 GMT
 Hearing aids

As a person with fairly severe 'nerve' hearing loss, who uses two aids, I'd
like to comment on the original message.  The MD who said that hearing aids
wouldn't work was wrong.  They can't restore normal hearing, but they sure
as the devil help many with nerve deafness hear better.  They do need to be
fitted to the individual's loss and, therefore, chosen carefully.

The Miracle Ear salesperson represents one of the 'rip-off' hearing aid outfits.
The goal of Miracle Ear appears to be to sell the most expensive aid possible,
with little attention to how well it does the job for the person being
fitted.  One apparently gets the aid that costs, not the aid that works well
for him/her.

I would suggest that you consult a good audiologist--preferrably one in a
University or medical school speech and hearing clinic.  Excellent information
about aids (and other information about hearing loss) can be obtained from
Self Help for Hard of Hearing People, 7800 Wisconsin Ave, Bethesda, MD.  Or
query me via e-mail or phone if you wish.


Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
--

Mimi Clifford, 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705, 919-489-4821



Thu, 08 Jun 1995 21:11:18 GMT
 Hearing aids

Quote:

> I know, I know... these may not be appropriate newsgroups, but they
> are the best I could find.  After reading this, if you can suggest
> others groups, PLEASE do so!

> Here's the story: My SO is hard of hearing and has been for most of
> her life.  Recently, she went to two different practitioners, the
> first, a salesman for Miracle Ear and the second, a doctor who
> dispenses hearing aids as needed.

> They both agree on her problem: She has nerve damage that makes it
> difficult for her to hear high frequency sounds.  This is a very
> common pattern for hearing loss.  The damage is nerver damage only,
> ther appears to be no conductive loss.

> This is where they disagree: The Miracle ear guy told her that his
> product can selectively amplify different frequencies.  That is, in
> her case, the low frequencies would not be altered, but the high
> frequencies would be amplified.  This would help compensate for her
> problem.  He "rigged" up his testing machine to simulate how the aids
> would work and my SO reported that the results were amazing.  

> The second doctor told her that in her case, she needed a hearing aid,
> such as the one described above, but that they don't exist!  He said
> that the only type on the market were straight amplifiers, and in her
> case, they'd be useless.  Now, as an engineer, I know that the
> technology for a selectively amplified hearing aid is not difficult.  

> So the question is this: Who's telling the truth?  Do Miracle Ear
> hearing aids work as advertised?  Is the second practitioner correct,
> or is he "jealous" of a technology not available to him?  Any
> information, including personal anecdotes, are welcomed.

> --

> Field Robotics Center,          | Christian churches, is the study of
> Carnegie Mellon University      | nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests
> Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | on no principles; it proceeds by no
> (412) 268-3856                  | authority; it has no data; it can
>                                 | demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no
> The opinions expressed are mine | conclusion.  Thomas Paine
> and do not reflect the official |
> position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  |
> or any other organization.      |

Amazing. I've had profound nerve-deafness since birth. The
technology does exist to correct such hearing loss; I know,
because the two Phonaks I'm wearing are ideal for me. Your
SO definitely needs a competent audiologist and hearing aid
dispenser; I found a superb professional, one and the same,
after doing some library research. The Phonaks have band-width
and gain controls which, once set, correct my deafness. Good
luck with your search; let me know how it goes.

--

Fat City Software BBS -- (619) 621-6079
UUCP: ...crash.cts.com!fatcity!kfree  OR  ...telesoft.com!fatcity!kfree



Wed, 07 Jun 1995 15:14:27 GMT
 Hearing aids
|>
|> So the question is this: Who's telling the truth?  Do Miracle Ear
|> hearing aids work as advertised?  Is the second practitioner correct,
|> or is he "jealous" of a technology not available to him?  Any
|> information, including personal anecdotes, are welcomed.
|>

I've just recently gone through what you're SO is experiencing.  My hearing
drops off to 80 db above 2Khz.  I went to several dispensers and was told that
canal-type aids would work, or would not work, depending on what type of aid
that particular dispenser was pushing.  I narrowed my options down to Miracle
Ear and NuEar (the Roy Rogers one!).  They both seemed to work fine in their
simulation and I bought Miracle Ear because they were cheaper ($2400 for both
ears! OUCH!!!).  I can attest that they do work!  I am now hearing things that
I never even knew I was missing!  Imagine turning on your stereo and then turning
the treble down all the way and the bass up all the way; that's what I hear
without the aids.  They do indeed amplify the high frequencies without touching
the lows.

I'm not a rep for Miracle Ear; just a mighty happy customer; I say give them a
try!

--
Alan Hepburn           "An ignorant person is one who doesn't know
National Semiconductor       what you have just found out."
Santa Clara, Ca              



Wed, 07 Jun 1995 03:38:18 GMT
 Hearing aids


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Hearing aids
This issue has come up a few times in the last couple of years, so perhaps
it is time for an FAQ entry.  The following information is courtesy of my
wife, a speech pathologist, who had to train with audiologists and sometimes
has to administer hearing tests in her line of work:

NEVER buy a hearing aid from a dealer.  They are only interested in selling
you something expensive, and they are not qualified to prescribe an aid.

If you have a hearing problem, you should discuss it with your doctor
and possibly an ENT doctor (otolaryngologist), in order to rule out
any treatable causes.  Most likely there will not be anything they
can do; they should refer you to an audiologist.  Many ENTs have an
audiologist working in their office.

You want to see an audiologist with certification from the American Speech,
Language, and Hearing Association (ASHA), in the US and Canada; I do
not know the names of other national certification bodies.

The audiologist will spend around half an hour testing your hearing in a
sound-proof booth.  She will also take molds of your ears for the aid.
At the time of your visit, you should make an appointment for a followup
a few weeks after you get your aid.

The followup visit is part of the original audiologist's fee, so don't skip
it in order to save a few bucks; you won't save anything and you will miss
a chance for a potentially important adjustment.

Why should you bother?

1) Modern aids are quite complicated; they can selectively filter, boost,
and shift frequencies.  They are at least as complicated as glasses;
an ill-fitted aid can be worse then no aid at all.

2) Human ears all suffer from a curious defect: the threshold for permanent
damage is well below the threshold for pain (90 dB versus 110 dB).  In a
person with a hearing problem, a level of sound that damages the ears may
not even seem very loud.  A badly-adjusted aid can produce damaging sound
levels, and a badly made ear mold can allow audio feedback, which can easily
reach damaging, even extremely painful, levels.

3) If a pair of glasses fits very badly, the patient quickly notices and
returns to the optometrist.  Unfortunately, a badly fitted hearing aid
can do a great deal of harm long before the patient notices.

4) In New York, and some other states, audiologists are allowed to sell the
hearing aid they prescribe.  The selling price is equal to the audiologist's
purchase price, so no profit is made on the transaction (actually, given
the carrying costs, the audiologist loses money).  If your state allows
this, you should definitely get your aid from the audiologist; going
to a dealer costs more and the dealer may try to pass off an aid that
pays a higher profit margin, saying that it's obviously better, being
more expensive.  Repeated experiences of dealers misfilling prescriptions
is the reason for the New York law.  If you have to go to a dealer to
get your prescription filled, insist that it be filled exactly as written,
and make an appointment with the audiologist for an adjustment ASAP.

----------

And a note on "nerve deafness:"

So-called "nerve deafness" is usually the result of damage, not to nerves,
but to the hair cells of the cochlea.  These cells run in a line in the
inside of the cochlear spiral; the _basilar membrane_ extends from the
other side of the tube to lie against them.  Vibrations in the cochlea
push the membrane, which pushes the hairs (cilia), which cause the hair
cells to develop potentials that are passed on to the auditory neurons.
Very loud sounds cause the basilar membrane to shear off the hairs;
unfortunately, the hair cells never grow new hairs.  Some infections
(measles, sometimes) can also destroy the hair cells.

The usual cause of hearing loss in the hearing population is noise-induced
damage to the hair cells.  Sensitivity to the higher frequencies is most
hurt; people with this loss often have trouble distinguishing among
fricatives (s, f, soft th) and unvoiced stops (p, t, k).

--
Mark A. Fulk                    University of Rochester



Sat, 10 Jun 1995 00:41:05 GMT
 Hearing aids


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Hearing aids

Quote:

>The second doctor told her that in her case, she needed a hearing aid,
>such as the one described above, but that they don't exist!  He said
>that the only type on the market were straight amplifiers, and in her
>case, they'd be useless.  Now, as an engineer, I know that the
>technology for a selectively amplified hearing aid is not difficult.  

>So the question is this: Who's telling the truth?  Do Miracle Ear
>hearing aids work as advertised?  Is the second practitioner correct,
>or is he "jealous" of a technology not available to him?  Any
>information, including personal anecdotes, are welcomed.

A hearing-impaired colleague informs me that frequency-equalized
hearing aids have been state-of-the-art for many years.  He had his
hearing analyzed and the proper correction was implemented in
his hearing aid.  As with most hearing-impaired, his response at
the low frequencies is almost normal.

On the matter of the cause of the impairment, my understanding was
that it is commonly due to damage (or improper development) of the
little hairs that pick up vibrations  in that little shell-shaped
thing (I forget the name).  If the nerves were damaged, no amount
of amplification would get the signal to the brain.

__________________________________________________________________
Rolf Meier                                      Mitel Corporation



Sun, 11 Jun 1995 01:47:00 GMT
 Hearing aids
Hi Rolf, I figure you might like a first person validation.  I am
currently using hearing aids that selectively boost frequencies over
2000 in proportion to my loss (-90 db at 4000) while leaving the
lower frequencies unaffected.  Sound comes thru the aid in a direct
path as well as thru the circuit so I hear the lower frequencies
un-amplified.  I have acoustic trauma from 25 years of skeet and
pistol shooting (much done before the knowledge of what damage it
does) with the addetive affect of presbyacusis (normal hearing loss of
aging.)
    All I can tell you is now I can understand conversations in noisy
background areas, understand what a person 15 feet away in a committee
meeting is saying, and not have to ask every OR nurse to repeat the
question.
    One needs to see a registered audiologist who keeps up to date
with latest techniques, and also see a otolaryngologist that is up to
date on hearing aids in the first place.  The technology is rapidly
changing......thank God.

Merry Christmas, Rolf                        Len Howard



Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:06:19 GMT
 
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