Spider Bite? 
Author Message
 Spider Bite?


Quote:
Rasmussen) writes:

 DA>> Unfortunately, the brown recluse bites I've had have always resulted
 DA>in me
 DA>> taking prednisone...usually about 2 weeks after the bite, when
 DA>everything else
 DA>> has failed.
 DA>
 DA>I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but how does one
 DA>manage
 DA>to get bitten by spiders like this? I want to make sure I don't
 DA>succeed!
 DA>

The Brown recluse is becoming somewhat more common as they extend their range.  
They are found indoors and are not aggressive (except to insects).  Bites  
usually occur through inadvertance - you might put on a shirt that has one  
hiding in it or it might decide to sleep with you and you roll over on it.  
Best defense is exterminators spraying from time to time.

Leo

--  
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!14!Leo.Bores



Wed, 19 May 1993 23:57:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?

 DA>> Unfortunately, the brown recluse bites I've had have always resulted
 DA>in me
 DA>> taking prednisone...usually about 2 weeks after the bite, when
 DA>everything else
 DA>> has failed.
 DA>
 DA>I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but how does one
 DA>manage
 DA>to get bitten by spiders like this? I want to make sure I don't
 DA>succeed!
 DA>

LB>The Brown recluse is becoming somewhat
LB>more common as they extend their range.  
LB>They are found indoors and are not aggressive (except to insects).  Bites  
LB>usually occur through inadvertance - you might put on a shirt that has one  
LB>hiding in it or it might decide to sleep with you and you roll over on it.  
LB>Best defense is exterminators spraying from time to time.
LB>

        The Brown Recluse are not limited to indoors, in fact they are
        quite common in the outdoors.  

        My experience with the spider was while leading an overnight
        camping trip of Boy Scouts from a summer camp, (30 boys -
        3 counselors (our 4th counsellor had fallen and injured his knee
        the day before (we were injury plagued that year)) In any case,
        about a mile from the base camp, and 200 yards from our destination,
        one of my counselors stated to cry out, holding his leg and
        complaining about what he thought was a bee sting.
        We transported him to the outpost camp, and I sent my remaining
        counselor back to get help (our air horn only had a half mile
        range - but I'm thankful for it).  While I tended to his comfort,
        and kept the scouts busy, our help started out hiking this trail.
        (fantastic responce time and energy BTW).
        In the mean time, I was marking the progress of the infection/
        poison, and recording the localized muscle seizures that were
        occuring.Our responce finally came, and they hiked him out on
        that narrow one mile trail in a litter.  Our camp doctor came with
        the reponse team and administed an antihistimine.  (I had to stay
        at the outpost with the scouts).  Once back at the base camp they
        transported him to the meeting point for the ambulance.  Form
        bite to ambulance was about 4 1/2 hours.  We were later told
        that the bit was probably that of a brown recluse spider.
        We were just happy things went as well as they did.
        Sorry to ramble, but the people on that rescue did such a great job,
        I just had to brag.

P.S.: the brown recluse spider is AKA a violin spider.

                                        - w.s.

+ * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * + * +
L. Alex. Pranger        - American Red Cross - Safety Services Instructor


   DIS: These are my opinions, not the A.R.C.'s or C.C.E.M.E.P.'s.
--
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
The Claremont Colleges Emergency Medicine Eduation Program   \ | /

     "Trust us, we know what we're doing."                   / | \



Wed, 19 May 1993 07:55:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?
I am not a physician, but I am an Independent Duty Hospital Corpsman in the  
Navy.  I provide medical care on ships without a medical officer.
As such, I see sick call, order and interpret tests, and prescribe meds.

This explanation is to provide a basis for the following:

  Did the bite hurt when you noticed it, or was it painless?

  Is there a core of what appears to be dead tissue?

  Based on what you describe, it sounds like the bite of a Brown Recluse
Spider, which I have seen and treated many times.  If the bite was
painless, it indicates more likely a Black Widow bite.   Either way
it sounds like cellulitis is developing and you should see a physician
about getting started on a antibiotic (Dicloxicillin, etc.).
I hope this helps.

--  
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!363!52!Smokey.*



Wed, 19 May 1993 13:55:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?
The Brown Recluse spider is so named because he (she?) is reclusive, i.e.,  
hides in and under things, loves dark corners under boards in your garage or  
ba{*filter*}t, gets in the sleeve of your hunting coat{*filter*} on the ba{*filter*}t wall  
for months, in boots, gloves, etc.  The best prevention is LOOKING and SHAKING  
before you put it on, wearing gloves before you pick up debris, etc.  Though it  
is usually said that tissue necrosis results and must be debrided, such is not  
always the case.  Probably this depends upon the amount of venom injucted by  
the beast and upon individual tolerance to the stuff.  One of my nurses  
recently had (we thought) a BRS bite - it sure looked like it - but she went  
ahead and healed up nicely after about two + weeks.
(signed)  John Moe

--  
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!231!80.0!John.Moe



Wed, 19 May 1993 14:00:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?

Quote:

>Moore) writes:

 >>I discovered a couple of days ago that I had been bitten on the
 >>leg by an insect - presumably a spider. The bite started as a
 >>red bump about half an inch in diameter. Over the last 48 hours, it has
 >>grown to 3.5 inches in diameter, with a redish-purple ring 1.5 inches
 >>in diameter and is still growing. It is painful to touch and
 >>itches a little bit.
 >>
 >>I went to the doc yesterday and he gave me high dose antihistamines,
 >>but didn't seem to know a whole lot about insect bites.

 >>Does anyone know what I can expect from this bite? Is it characteristic
 >>of any species in particular?

I'm afraid I missed your original posting, but I've seen a lot
of replies.  As a specialist in wilderness and environmental
emergency medicine, I see a lot of spider bites.  Many spiders
have a necrotoxic venom that causes local tissue damage, often
seen as a dark red, well-circumscribred patch with slight edema
and warmth, with a central blister.  This stage peaks at about
3-5 days after the bite (often the bite is not noticed
initially).  While a variety of spiders cause such bites, the
one most worried about is the brown recluse (Loxosceles
reclusa), because the bites often go on to produce long-lasting
necrosis at the site.

While the diagnosis of a true brown recluse bite hinges on
identification of the spider, any bite that develops central
necrosis should, in my opinion, be treated as a brown recluse
bite.

The treatment of brown recluse bites is controversial, yet
shouldn't be, because recent research on treatment and outcome
is very definite:  the best treatment is an experimental
antivenin available only from the Department of Emergency
Medicine at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, TN.  They will
ship it to another doctor or hospital, but only if it's within
a certain time of the bite (24 hours, I think) and the spider
has been definintely identified.

Recommendations for treating a bite if the antivenin is not
available include the use of the antibiotic erythromycin and a
drug called Dapsone that decreases the aggretation of white
{*filter*} cells, and thus diminishes the area of necrosis.
Although this drug can cause hemolysis in those with G6PD
deficiency, the drug should be given to those with G6PD
deficiency anyway and the {*filter*} counts monitored closely.
Dapsone has been shown to be far superior to other treatments
including steroids and surgery.  References are contained in
the current (second) edition of Auerbach and Geehr's
"Management of Wilderness and Enviromental Emergencies."  Dr.
Auerbach may be reached at the Vanderbilt ER if one has
specific questions.

--Keith Conover, M.D.
  Editorial Board, Journal of Wilderness Medicine.

SEEN-BY:

--  
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!129!53.0!Keith.Conover



Wed, 19 May 1993 15:34:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?

 >I discovered a couple of days ago that I had been bitten on the
 >leg by an insect - presumably a spider. The bite started as a
 >red bump about half an inch in diameter. Over the last 48 hours, it has
 >grown to 3.5 inches in diameter, with a redish-purple ring 1.5 inches
 >in diameter and is still growing. It is painful to touch and
 >itches a little bit.
 >
 >I went to the doc yesterday and he gave me high dose antihistamines,
 >but didn't seem to know a whole lot about insect bites.
 >
 >I live in arizona at 1700ft on the slope of a desert mountain.
 >We have several varieties of scorpions, centipedes, black widows,
 >brown spiders, and misc. other spiders.
 >
 >Does anyone know what I can expect from this bite? Is it characteristic
 >of any species in particular?

This is strictly a lay opinion but based on television coverage of research at  
Vanderbilt University concerning spider bites-the brown recluse may be the  
culprit.  I'd check the physician's referal number in a large city near you for  
a reference to a specialist in insect/arachnid bites.  The program indicated  
these things can be pretty painful and can result in some tissue damage in the  
area.  The brown recluse is very plentiful in this area (West Kentucky) but is  
a small, mainly nocturnal, rather unagressive critter but with a {*filter*} bite for  
those unfortunate enough to encounter one in the wrong circumstances.  When in  
the woods, particularly overnight, a good precaution is to carefully check the  
inside of boots before putting them on.  Good luck.  Best, Bill

PS-just noticed a reply from Leo Bores with same conclusion-possibly brown  
recluse.

--  
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!11!301!Bill.Allbritten



Wed, 19 May 1993 08:03:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?

Quote:
> Unfortunately, the brown recluse bites I've had have always resulted in me
> taking prednisone...usually about 2 weeks after the bite, when everything else
> has failed.

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but how does one manage
to get bitten by spiders like this? I want to make sure I don't succeed!

--

Bellnet: +1 (414) 229-5133, USnail: CSD, P.O. Box 413, Milwaukee, WI  53201



Wed, 19 May 1993 00:58:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?

Quote:

>...The brown recluse is very plentiful in this area (West Kentucky)
>but is a small, mainly nocturnal, rather unagressive critter but with
>a {*filter*} bite for those unfortunate enough to encounter one in the
>wrong circumstances.  When in the woods, particularly overnight, a
>good precaution is to carefully check the inside of boots before
>putting them on...

>I  don't  know if this is the right place to ask this,  but  how
>does  one manage to get bitten by spiders like this?  I want  to
>make sure I don't succeed!

Spiders probably bite if trapped between clothing and skin.  From my
experience, I believe that the probability of spider bite is very low:

As a kid, I lived in western Kentucky, overlooking the Ohio River.  
Black widows were extremely plentiful; people generally disregarded
them and I never knew anyone who got bitten by any kind of spider.  My
friends and I used to go "caving" under the house, where huge clusters
of black widows dripped from the ceiling (kinda like an Indiana Jones
movie *(:-).  Once we collected a jar full of them and made a spider
grenade.  We shook it up to enrage the spiders, then threw it at a
rival gang of brats but when it broke, all the spiders got squashed
and shredded.  YUCK!

Black widow spiders are easy to recognize, are definitely non-
aggressive, and very slow-moving.  Brown recluse spiders are perhaps
more dangerous because they look like any other random spider to the
non-biologist.

--




Wed, 19 May 1993 16:28:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?
...

Quote:
>Black widow spiders are easy to recognize, are definitely non-
>aggressive, and very slow-moving.  Brown recluse spiders are perhaps
>more dangerous because they look like any other random spider to the
>non-biologist.

Brown recluse spiders are as easy to recognize as black widows.  Brown
recluses are a delicate non-{*filter*} light-to-medium-brown spider, with
a perfectly shaped black violin on their backs.  

I've seen three live ones (they were caught in the building where I
worked in Alababma), and all had the distinctive and highly visible
black violin.

Eileen Phelan



Wed, 19 May 1993 21:08:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?
Having just watched an impassioned plea for more donors, my kids
pointed out several areas of concern.  A problem with the news item is
that while the 20-year-old leukemic movingly stated that more donors
are needed, neither she nor the newscasters provided any information.
Anyone who was moved to wonder about donating was left to figure out
what to do about it.  We formulated a list of questions, and I wonder
if someone can answer them.  You can either email directly and I can
summarize, or you can post so as to advertise/inform/sensitize
everyone.

Where does one investigate BMT donation?

What criteria rule out donation?

Does {*filter*} group (A,O,B,AB, etc) affect BMT?  Is any certain
{*filter*} group less/more available?

Are cadaver donations possible?

What is involved in joining the BMT registry?

What is the specific operation involved in testing?  In donating?

How often can one donate?

How does it affect the donor?  Any permanent risks?  What kind of
waiver/informed consent is involved for the donor?  For the donee?

Does the donee know who donated?

Is pain an ingredient in the procedure?  How painful?  Painful for whom?
For how long?  Is anesthesia used for donor/donee?  

How/where does one sign up?

How long does testing/donating take for donor/donee?

Who pays the expenses of testing/donating?

Is this ever done for profit?

Can bone marrow be banked?



Wed, 19 May 1993 03:15:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?

Quote:
>> Unfortunately, the brown recluse bites I've had have always resulted in me
>> taking prednisone...usually about 2 weeks after the bite, when everything else
>> has failed.

>I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but how does one manage
>to get bitten by spiders like this? I want to make sure I don't succeed!

>--

>Bellnet: +1 (414) 229-5133, USnail: CSD, P.O. Box 413, Milwaukee, WI  53201

I was having a discussion a while back concerning spiders and the dangers
of being bitten by them.  Are the black widow and the brown recluse spiders
the only ones that can cause medical problems or are there other types
of spiders whose bites can result in anything from minor to more serious
medical problems?  I'm talking about spiders in the U.S. only.

ray



Wed, 19 May 1993 15:19:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Spider Bite?

Quote:
>Having just watched an impassioned plea for more donors, my kids
>pointed out several areas of concern.  A problem with the news item is
>that while the 20-year-old leukemic movingly stated that more donors
>are needed, neither she nor the newscasters provided any information.
>Anyone who was moved to wonder about donating was left to figure out
>what to do about it.  We formulated a list of questions, and I wonder
>if someone can answer them.  You can either email directly and I can
>summarize, or you can post so as to advertise/inform/sensitize
>everyone.

>Where does one investigate BMT donation?

>What criteria rule out donation?

>Does {*filter*} group (A,O,B,AB, etc) affect BMT?  Is any certain
>{*filter*} group less/more available?

>Are cadaver donations possible?

>What is involved in joining the BMT registry?

>What is the specific operation involved in testing?  In donating?

>How often can one donate?

>How does it affect the donor?  Any permanent risks?  What kind of
>waiver/informed consent is involved for the donor?  For the donee?

>Does the donee know who donated?

>Is pain an ingredient in the procedure?  How painful?  Painful for whom?
>For how long?  Is anesthesia used for donor/donee?  

>How/where does one sign up?

>How long does testing/donating take for donor/donee?

>Who pays the expenses of testing/donating?

>Is this ever done for profit?

>Can bone marrow be banked?



Wed, 19 May 1993 22:25:00 GMT
 
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