Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim 
Author Message
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim
"The latest papers include a better description of that cave, which
concludes that whatever hobbits were, they ate a lot of Stegodon
 pygmy elephants.
One thing the cave lacked was seashells, suggesting that hobbits
were not big on surf and turf. "Homo floresiensis probably descended
 from a very early Homo erectus, or from Homo habilis, both human
species that are not known to have used marine resources.
Homo floresiensis probably did not have the right behavior to exploit
marine resources (perhaps fear of entering the water, just like for
instance orangutans)," says study lead author Gert van den Bergh
of Holland's Nationaal Natuurhistorisch Museum Naturalis, by e-mail."

http://www.***.com/



Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:02:39 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim

Quote:
> "The latest papers include a better description of that cave, which
> concludes that whatever hobbits were, they ate a lot of Stegodon
>  pygmy elephants.
> One thing the cave lacked was seashells,

Why on earth should they eat molluscs in caves instead of at/in the water??

Quote:
> suggesting that hobbits
> were not big on surf and turf. "Homo floresiensis probably descended
>  from a very early Homo erectus, or from Homo habilis, both human
> species that are not known to have used marine resources.

Antoher SF who doesn't know that Flores is an island.

Quote:
> Homo floresiensis probably did not have the right behavior to exploit
> marine resources (perhaps fear of entering the water, just like for
> instance orangutans)," says study lead author Gert van den Bergh
> of Holland's Nationaal Natuurhistorisch Museum Naturalis, by e-mail."
> http://tinyurl.com/cqyqbo

"probably" in the minds of biased people = "probably not"


Mon, 25 Jul 2011 23:04:55 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim

Quote:
> > "The latest papers include a better description of that cave, which
> > concludes that whatever hobbits were, they ate a lot of Stegodon
> > ?pygmy elephants.
> > One thing the cave lacked was seashells,

> Why on earth should they eat molluscs in caves instead of at/in the water??

For the same reason they ate the elephants in the caves, rather than
in the field.
I'm surprised you don't understand this.

Quote:

> > suggesting that hobbits
> > were not big on surf and turf. "Homo floresiensis probably descended
> > ?from a very early Homo erectus, or from Homo habilis, both human
> > species that are not known to have used marine resources.

> Antoher SF who doesn't know that Flores is an island.

Another WL who doesn't understand hunted elephants can live on an
island. FYI: the first evidence for people on Santa Rosa Island, the
Arlington
Springs Woman, is associated with pygmy mammoths, not seashells.

Quote:

> > Homo floresiensis probably did not have the right behavior to exploit
> > marine resources (perhaps fear of entering the water, just like for
> > instance orangutans)," says study lead author Gert van den Bergh
> > of Holland's Nationaal Natuurhistorisch Museum Naturalis, by e-mail."
> >http://tinyurl.com/cqyqbo

> "probably" in the minds of biased people = "probably not"

The elephant data is science, the imaginary in the water data is
wishful thinking.


Tue, 26 Jul 2011 00:00:34 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim
This is interesting. Might make a good discussion of it if the Trekki
mermaid lubber doesn't keep butting in with his crack-head agenda.

But seriously, I find it hard to believe that early erectus and
habilis never ever ate a ingle shell fish when they are just lying on
the beach along the coastal path they probably took to get from Africa
to Indonesia.
They should be safer and say that that particular cave's Hobbits
didn't eat alot of shellfish.

But how could they be afraid of water and get to Flores?

Is there any possibility that Wallace was wrong? If so, why do we have
no Komodo dragons in Java, and in fact the northern parts of the Sunda
shelf?

Whether by boat or on stegodon back, they'd be pretty damn close to
the water.

An if they were riding stegodons to get to Flores, then we might as
well accept Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals riding wooly mammoths as
entirely plausible and even probable.

Curiously, the "primitive" erectus in Sundaland was not Homo Habilis,
but Meganthropus. If Flores evolved from Meganthropus, then it would
be interesting that the most robust(and most likely he tallest) member
of Homo ever would wind up as a pygmy.

I think it's premature to say they didn't eat shellfish, even if they
didn't in that particular cave.

Having said that, this article and my opinion have absolutely nothing
to do with the Aquatic Mer-Ape stuff.

I



Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:12:24 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim

Quote:
> This is interesting. Might make a good discussion of it if the Trekki
> mermaid lubber doesn't keep butting in with his crack-head agenda.

> But seriously, I find it hard to believe that early erectus and
> habilis never ever ate a ingle shell fish when they are just lying on
> the beach along the coastal path they probably took to get from Africa
> to Indonesia.

Of course, people will eat shoe leather if they are starving. But the
problem would be, how much rare shell-fish eating would  it take to
guide the course of our evolution the way it did early on?

Quote:
> They should be safer and say that that particular cave's Hobbits
> didn't eat alot of shellfish.

True marine cultures show up exceeding late in the archaeological
record.
If  our ancestors were such fish lovers early on, why does marine
exploitation
fail to show up in other caves until population pressure forced some
to the edge of the water? There are many other close to the seashore
sites  were non-marine fauna is exploited early on, only to have
shells show up much later .

Quote:

> But how could they be afraid of water and get to Flores?

> Is there any possibility that Wallace was wrong? If so, why do we have
> no Komodo dragons in Java, and in fact the northern parts of the Sunda
> shelf?

> Whether by boat or on stegodon back, they'd be pretty damn close to
> the water.

> An if they were riding stegodons to get to Flores, then we might as
> well accept Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals riding wooly mammoths as
> entirely plausible and even probable.

Lemurs got to Madagascar without boats or elephants help.

Quote:

> Curiously, the "primitive" erectus in Sundaland was not Homo Habilis,
> but Meganthropus. If Flores evolved from Meganthropus, then it would
> be interesting that the most robust(and most likely he tallest) member
> of Homo ever would wind up as a pygmy.

Or Meggie was just another dead end. The Dmanisi group wouldnt have
had to shrink much to fit the bill.

Quote:

> I think it's premature to say they didn't eat shellfish, even if they
> didn't in that particular cave.

Or any other cave or any other savanna for the last X-million years
that is in the archaeological record. There were other cousins of Homo
out there, and like the
article pointed out...near zero evidence. This is a statistical valid
number, it does not depend on some new rare discovery.

Quote:

> Having said that, this article and my opinion have absolutely nothing
> to do with the Aquatic Mer-Ape stuff.

You also have to understand  something of the history of this forum.
When dealing with WL, it is not the same as dealing with rational
people, so the arguments do tend to drift a bit.


Tue, 26 Jul 2011 02:45:44 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim

Quote:
>> Why on earth should they eat molluscs in caves instead of at/in the water??

SF:
Quote:
> For the same reason they ate the elephants



Tue, 26 Jul 2011 03:29:57 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim

Quote:
> >> Why on earth should they eat molluscs in caves instead of at/in the water??

Moron, where are the mollusks/mussels you imagine they were eating?
Quote:

> SF:

> > For the same reason they ate the elephants



Tue, 26 Jul 2011 04:29:02 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim
inform little boy
google neanderthal seafood or so

Op 05-02-2009 21:29, in artikel


Quote:

>>>> Why on earth should they eat molluscs in caves instead of at/in the water??

> Moron, where are the mollusks/mussels you imagine they were eating?

>> SF:

>>> For the same reason they ate the elephants



Tue, 26 Jul 2011 06:45:09 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim

Quote:
> inform little boy

asks the {*filter*}

Quote:
> google neanderthal seafood or so

"Archeological analysis of faunal remains and of lithic and bone
tools has suggested that hunting of medium to large mammals was
a major element of Neanderthal subsistence. Plant foods are
almost invisible in the archeological record, and it is impossible to
estimate accurately their dietary importance. However, stable
isotope (d13C and d15N) analysis of mammal bone collagen provides
a direct measure of diet and has been applied to two Neanderthals
and various faunal species from Vindija Cave, Croatia. The isotope
evidence overwhelmingly points to the Neanderthals behaving as
top-level carnivores, obtaining almost all of their dietary protein
from animal sources. Earlier Neanderthals in France and Belgium
have yielded similar results, and a pattern of European Neanderthal
adaptation as carnivores is emerging. These data reinforce
current taphonomic assessments of associated faunal elements
and make it unlikely that the Neanderthals were acquiring animal
protein principally through scavenging. Instead, these findings
portray them as effective predators."
http://www.***.com/

What did you expect, shrimp?



Tue, 26 Jul 2011 07:29:30 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim

Quote:
>> inform little boy

SF:

Quote:
> asks the {*filter*}
>> google neanderthal seafood or so

too difficult for SFs apparently, but of course they try to use this:

Quote:
> "Archeological analysis of faunal remains and of lithic and bone
> tools has suggested that hunting of medium to large mammals was
> a major element of Neanderthal subsistence. Plant foods are
> almost invisible in the archeological record, and it is impossible to
> estimate accurately their dietary importance. However, stable
> isotope (d13C and d15N) analysis of mammal bone collagen provides
> a direct measure of diet and has been applied to two Neanderthals
> and various faunal species from Vindija Cave, Croatia. The isotope
> evidence overwhelmingly points to the Neanderthals behaving as
> top-level carnivores, obtaining almost all of their dietary protein
> from animal sources. Earlier Neanderthals in France and Belgium
> have yielded similar results, and a pattern of European Neanderthal
> adaptation as carnivores is emerging. These data reinforce
> current taphonomic assessments of associated faunal elements
> and make it unlikely that the Neanderthals were acquiring animal
> protein principally through scavenging. Instead, these findings
> portray them as effective predators."
> http://www.***.com/

yes, thanks my boy, confirms our view that Hn were hunting or scavenging
large terrestrial herbivores in swampy or riverside areas, drinking or
hiding from predators or crossing a river : large herbivores in shallow
waters are hindered in their movements (vs.Hn)
- Kleiner (2002) : Hn used spears merely to stab animals they had already
trapped or ambushed
- c 10 % of herbivores during the trek drown or get {*filter*}led while crossing
rivers
- Sch?ningen = bog (Thieme 1997)
- Mark Roberts suggests the Boxgrove horses moved up & down the coast in
herds (Gore, 1997)
- etc


Tue, 26 Jul 2011 07:51:44 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim


Fri, 19 Jun 1992 00:00:00 GMT
 Hobbits ate lots of meat, no shellfish, and didn't swim
SF:

Quote:
> Of course, people will eat shoe leather

yes my boy

Quote:
> If our ancestors were such fish lovers early on

nobody claims this


Tue, 26 Jul 2011 08:42:55 GMT
 
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