Eg., black Americans are about 33% European by ancestry (and about 4% American
Indian), but there is no correlation between the degree of admixture and IQ
results.
-- S.M. Stirling

--

***********************


**********************

While it is true that initially it SEEMS that there are obvious differences
among the "races", if you peer closer and closer, deeper and deeper, that
concept, that obviousness disappears.  Just use your imagination and run down
in your mind the hundreds or perhaps thousands of different people from the tip
of the continent of Africa to the Mediterrenian Sea.  When do you plan to draw
the line between the "Black race" and the "White race"?  i.e. between
Caucasians and "Blacks"? Or do you plan to classify  Middle Easterners  --
from, say, Moroco, through Libya, to Egypt, to Syria, to Iraq and Iran --
another distinct "race"?  And indeed, do you stop there in Iran, or do you go
on to include India as well? Or are the Indians another entirely different
"race"?  

Phenotypically Indians do look different from Middle Easterners, and both of
these two groups look VERY different phenotypically from Asians of Southeast
Asia,,,,,but even in South East Asia, the Malays and southern Thais look very
different, in both skin tones as well as in phenotypic features, from the
northern Lao, the hillbilly Hmong (of which I'm one),,,,,and they look very
different phynotypically from the Chinese, Koreans, Mongols and Japanese.  And
people claim to be able to tell the obvious difference between not only
Japanese and Hmong but also Lao and Hmong and Chinese!  Wow, that's tremendous
anthropological work!!!  What about Mongols?,,,,Are Mongols bordering the
Russians stepps Caucasians or are they Asians?

When you take an IQ test you need to be classified in a certain "race", right?
Or do we use IQ and other "standardized" tests as measurements for INDIVIDUAL
purposes only these days? Why or why not?

Alas!, let's be realistic. I posit seriously here that phenotypes guarantee NO
haven for "racial" classification.  Genotypically, however, it is a hopeless --
A HOPELESS -- cause where arguments for the various dinstinctive "racial"
groups are concerned.  Go ahead, prove me wrong. Go ahead, revive a certain
strand of sociobiology that was used by a certain pseudo American, Japanese,
and German (Nazi) scientists from the turn of the century to the 1940's. That
is, go ahead, use the dubious methods of measuring the diferential skull sizes
of the various "distinctive" racial groups!  Prove me wrong!   No doubt it can
be done easily for those who tested out as having IQs in the 150s to 180's,,,,
after all I was from the mountains of Laos and never saw more than a few neon
lights before coming to America in 1979, and probably will not get an IQ number
warmer than 90 or 100, "the average" number,,,,

Hawj Lauj

A formerly shoeless hillbilly Hmong from the mountains of Laos.

Strawberry

One point  of much importance to consider when your are reading about 'race,
IQ and genetics' is to remember that much of the data in these books (even
those being published today) includes data from the studies of Sir Francis
Galton.  Galtons work has been proven fraudulent; he did not test even a
fraction of the twins (raised in separate environments) as he claimed.  Also
the many researchers who 'assisted' him in his work did not in fact exist
the were simply false names he made up along with his data.

All of the above has been verified.

Also I think it should be pointed out that firstly, 'races' do not exist;
and secondly, genetics is not , by far, the only determining factor in
an_individuals_intelligence.

On the first point I have to say that what you have read is quite definitely
wrong.  There are greater genetic differences within 'ethnic groups' than
between them.  This in itself is enough to have proven to most
anthropologists that race does not exist.

To classify people by race is a similar mistake as classifying them by their
astrological starsign.

'Race' is a superstition that was born when, sadly, British anthropology was
in it's infancy.  And there is_absolutely_no biological or genetic proof for
its existence.

I stress again there are greater genetic differences within ethnic groups
than between them - this makes the concept of race an impossble factor in
'racial' IQ.

On the second point, intelligence is greatly influenced by many things such
as recall, concentration, speed of recall, retention, sensory acuity,
communication and many other factors (most certainly including environmental
circumstances).  All of which we are endowed with to various degrees.  To
suggest that one group has a general degradation across all of these areas -
or that one group has superiority across all of these areas-is an untestable
absurdity that does not warrant serious scientific inquiry.

Sociological and environmental factors account for much if not most of our
behaviour - such as the reason why some of the greatest mathematicians of
history have come from the Indian sub-continent and, also, why the nation
with the highest general IQ is Japan.

My advise to you is to read 'Not in our Genes' by Stephen Rose et al, In
this book you will find out just how reliable your sources are.

References?

--
==========================================================================

        Disclaimer: all I know I learned from reading Usenet.

References?

--
==========================================================================

        Disclaimer: all I know I learned from reading Usenet.

Joat

You are correct, The "Black" American is a mixture and the "White" American has up
to 5% "Black" genetics.  Based on RH's ideas we should see a slight drop in White
American (IQ which are notoriously inaccurate anyway). If you can define who those
White people are! While those Black Americans with more White genetic material
should be an "average" higher....hmmmmm. Plus you'd see the same effect in Africa
where the Blacks have mixed with Non-Black cultures (North Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia
and South Africa). I will guess that RH will say that Blacks have a "negative"
intelligence gene that lowers your IQ to a predetermined level if you have some
Black genetic material! Hey RH, how do you know that 2,000 years ago a Roman
soldier-from Egypt-and having Black Genetic material is not your Great x ??
Grandfather? Interesting thought.

By the way RH you never answered my questions earlier? Dodging perhaps?

Wayne

*********************************************
No evidence......Deny Deny Deny.......Good science....?????
.............................................................
The vast majority of People base their political and social                    
              views upon what they believe to be in their own self interests.